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A politician that lies? Say it ain’t so! Seriously though, this is the status quo until someone starts to hold such people accountable for their lies. This d

A politician that lies? Say it ain’t so! Seriously though, this is the status quo until someone starts to hold such people accountable for their lies. This does not happen nearly enough. If our leaders cannot be bothered to tell the truth, what effect do you think that has on society? Personally, I have seen a huge rise in dishonest behavior in my lifetime, and I blame the lack of integrity from the leaders in government, business, sports, and pretty much everything everywhere. If the fish rots from the head, then we should be taking a page from the French Revolution: off with their heads!

brianwawok 4y ago
Do you have any proof that there is more dishonest vs more global news access to dishonest behavior? I think humans have been pretty crooked forever. Just easier to hear about it now.
- voakbasda 4y ago
  I have only my own life experiences. It is entirely possible that my eyes have opened wider as I have aged, and I am starting to see things as they have always been. However, we are historically at the highest population in history, which means that - if the number of sociopaths is a relatively fixed percentage of the population - that there are many many more in terms of absolute numbers. There is much more competition for the top slots, which have not grown at a similar rate as our population. In other words, I also think their effect on society has been getting worse over time.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    The robber barons did a pretty bad job on society. As did the meat packers in the jungle.
boeingUH60 4y ago
Not American...but it's the same thing in my country, and most sensible voters seem to have given up. There's something about political power that seems to attract the scummiest of people even if there are enough competent people capable of leading...But then, mine is a third-world country, funny to see this happening in America and European countries increasingly (I thought it was only us :) At this point, I may not mind living under a competent king instead of a democratic clownfest.
- davidw 4y ago
  The "they're all the same" mentality rewards the worst politicians who lie a lot compared with ones who are mostly trying to do the right thing, and perhaps get a bit over-optimistic or something at times. I lived in Italy for a number of years, and the cynicism there about politicians was something I really disliked. It makes you look like you're wise and "in the know", but it sets the bar really low for a job that's pretty important to get right, and where we ought to expect better.
- sharikous 4y ago
  > There's something about political power that seems to attract the scummiest of people even if there are enough competent people capable of leading But that is a simple law. If there are not heavy (legal, cultural) constraints and scummy behavior can get more power rewards than honest behavior (which is often the case, especially for quick power grabs), then rather reasonably any honest politician will be displaced by a dishonest one. The only limits are cultural. And even them are based on the fact that in our time a country with a functioning legal system and democratic rulers tends to thrive more than a dark tyrannical regime so the cake itself is bigger.
Clent 4y ago
The internet has allowed politics to turn into a team sport. When the concern is only about the team, faults are easily glossed over. Changing it into a game, allows game theory to take over people's minds and suddenly there is no behavior too outrageous because the belief becomes that the other guys would have done it if they had thought of it first. Then very quickly the politicians that hold themselves accountable have been replaced with those who do not and a new norm is formed.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  That shit began way before the Internet. The 2nd Iraq war was just the same in European public discourse, thankfully Schröder chose to rather annoy the US than drag us in this clusterfuck.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    Speaking of the 2nd Iraq War, I've got to wonder how differently current events would be playing out had the US not invaded Iraq in 2003. Doing so burnt so much of the US's credibility, both foreign and domestic. For the last twenty years, my own view has basically been "having a military so large is a liability if it will just be taken advantage of by special interests to do terrible things". The world was basically peaceful, at least on the large scale. Now with Putin's genocidal conquest, I've been forced to resign myself to the idea that the overly hegemonic military is apparently necessary, and having it led by a government that at least acknowledges some productive higher values is not to be taken for granted. But that's a quick pivot, and not how politics works at all.
  - Clent 4y ago
    I didn't say social media. I said internet. The internet predates both Iraq wars.
djmips 4y ago
There's lies and then there's having an entirely fictitious life story.
- rbanffy 4y ago
  And we shouldn't normalize either. This is really bad. Whoever voted for him deserves a chance to have an informed vote - because democracy only works with a well informed electorate.
sanderjd 4y ago
For about the last 7 years, I have felt like having a single word - "lie" - cover such a wide range of deceptions has been weaponized to push back on peoples' innate (and accurate) sense that some lies are much worse than others. The "politicians lie" truism is meant to apply to campaign promises that candidates make knowing that they can't or won't even try to accomplish them. This manufacture of wholesale fictions by con artists and wanna be dictators is not the same thing, and is not actually at all common among politicians in the US historically or currently. Claims that these people are not so bad because they are just like any other politician are inaccurate and toxic. They are critical to the con succeeding.

brianwawok 4y ago

Do you have any proof that there is more dishonest vs more global news access to dishonest behavior? I think humans have been pretty crooked forever. Just easier to hear about it now.

voakbasda 4y ago
I have only my own life experiences. It is entirely possible that my eyes have opened wider as I have aged, and I am starting to see things as they have always been. However, we are historically at the highest population in history, which means that - if the number of sociopaths is a relatively fixed percentage of the population - that there are many many more in terms of absolute numbers. There is much more competition for the top slots, which have not grown at a similar rate as our population. In other words, I also think their effect on society has been getting worse over time.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  The robber barons did a pretty bad job on society. As did the meat packers in the jungle.

boeingUH60 4y ago

Not American...but it's the same thing in my country, and most sensible voters seem to have given up. There's something about political power that seems to attract the scummiest of people even if there are enough competent people capable of leading...But then, mine is a third-world country, funny to see this happening in America and European countries increasingly (I thought it was only us :) At this point, I may not mind living under a competent king instead of a democratic clownfest.

davidw 4y ago
The "they're all the same" mentality rewards the worst politicians who lie a lot compared with ones who are mostly trying to do the right thing, and perhaps get a bit over-optimistic or something at times. I lived in Italy for a number of years, and the cynicism there about politicians was something I really disliked. It makes you look like you're wise and "in the know", but it sets the bar really low for a job that's pretty important to get right, and where we ought to expect better.
sharikous 4y ago
> There's something about political power that seems to attract the scummiest of people even if there are enough competent people capable of leading But that is a simple law. If there are not heavy (legal, cultural) constraints and scummy behavior can get more power rewards than honest behavior (which is often the case, especially for quick power grabs), then rather reasonably any honest politician will be displaced by a dishonest one. The only limits are cultural. And even them are based on the fact that in our time a country with a functioning legal system and democratic rulers tends to thrive more than a dark tyrannical regime so the cake itself is bigger.

Clent 4y ago

The internet has allowed politics to turn into a team sport. When the concern is only about the team, faults are easily glossed over. Changing it into a game, allows game theory to take over people's minds and suddenly there is no behavior too outrageous because the belief becomes that the other guys would have done it if they had thought of it first. Then very quickly the politicians that hold themselves accountable have been replaced with those who do not and a new norm is formed.

mschuster91 4y ago
That shit began way before the Internet. The 2nd Iraq war was just the same in European public discourse, thankfully Schröder chose to rather annoy the US than drag us in this clusterfuck.
- mindslight 4y ago
  Speaking of the 2nd Iraq War, I've got to wonder how differently current events would be playing out had the US not invaded Iraq in 2003. Doing so burnt so much of the US's credibility, both foreign and domestic. For the last twenty years, my own view has basically been "having a military so large is a liability if it will just be taken advantage of by special interests to do terrible things". The world was basically peaceful, at least on the large scale. Now with Putin's genocidal conquest, I've been forced to resign myself to the idea that the overly hegemonic military is apparently necessary, and having it led by a government that at least acknowledges some productive higher values is not to be taken for granted. But that's a quick pivot, and not how politics works at all.
- Clent 4y ago
  I didn't say social media. I said internet. The internet predates both Iraq wars.

djmips 4y ago

There's lies and then there's having an entirely fictitious life story.

rbanffy 4y ago
And we shouldn't normalize either. This is really bad. Whoever voted for him deserves a chance to have an informed vote - because democracy only works with a well informed electorate.

sanderjd 4y ago

For about the last 7 years, I have felt like having a single word - "lie" - cover such a wide range of deceptions has been weaponized to push back on peoples' innate (and accurate) sense that some lies are much worse than others. The "politicians lie" truism is meant to apply to campaign promises that candidates make knowing that they can't or won't even try to accomplish them. This manufacture of wholesale fictions by con artists and wanna be dictators is not the same thing, and is not actually at all common among politicians in the US historically or currently. Claims that these people are not so bad because they are just like any other politician are inaccurate and toxic. They are critical to the con succeeding.