4 ms·

I fear for Ukraine if they will eventually lose the war. If that happens they'll most likely come under the Russian sphere of influence and the West will pull b

I fear for Ukraine if they will eventually lose the war. If that happens they'll most likely come under the Russian sphere of influence and the West will pull back leaving them to fend for themselves whilst their entire country lies in ruins. They'll be ruined both militarily and financially. The Russians will do nothing to aid them, probably accusing them of resisting and killing many of their countrymen and in reprisal taking large swaths of land and destroying their culture. I foresee many millions of Ukrainians leaving for Western Europe if that scenario becomes reality, which could destabilize Western European nations. War isn't about destroying tanks and airplanes but occupying the land of your opponent. Russia certainly has a leg up in that regards since they're sacrificing hundreds of thousands of young men to stop the Ukrainians from advancing and could even take Kiev next year. If Ukraine loses it will mean yet another huge blow to the West. And all this started because we prodded them to become NATO member. They even put their desire for NATO membership in their Constitution! I believe this was the straw that broke the camel's back and inspired Putin to invade.

guax 4y ago
"And all this started because we prodded them to become NATO member." When you say this in this way you're taking agency out of Ukraine. They wanted nato membership to be protected from Russian influence, they were being harrased since they became free. Of course NATO would probe them, just like a salesman will try to sell you a car if you walk in a dealership. There is existing interest.
- UltraViolence 4y ago
  I very much hope that Ukraine wins this war, but won't lose any sleep over it if they don't. I sincerely believe the problem started when the U.S. government Think Tanks in Washington decided Russia should be split up into smaller states without nuclear capability. U.S. policy has been to turn that concept into reality by surrounding Russia with NATO states on its borders and threatening it in the hope its population would rebel and making it ripe for breakup.
  - thewinnie 4y ago
    First you start talking about how you fear about Ukraine losing the war. One comment after you are stating its not actually a big deal for you smells fishy
    - UltraViolence 4y ago
      It isn't a big deal for me. I believe if Ukraine loses the war the West doesn't lose anything but its pride, even though Zelensky is implying otherwise. Ukraine fully deserves our support for defending its sovereignty, but it's merely a pawn in the bigger game of Hegemony. If the pawn falls the game will continue.
      - lm555 4y ago
        West doesn't lose anything? I don't even know where to begin. Just a few things: 1. Europe have a problem with resources and Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury. 2. Europe geopolitics – when Ukraine lose, will Putin focus just move on to Moldova and then Serbia and Georgia. And as citizen of small European country I'm afraid that he will soon get copycats because we are back to allowing to redefining borders.
        justsomehnguy 4y ago
        [flagged]
Mikeb85 4y ago
>And all this started because we prodded them to become NATO member. This is victim blaming. I'm in the Czech Republic right now, ask anyone here if they want the Russians back? There's Ukrainian flags everywhere here and no one dreams of giving up support. Nearly every formerly communist country that's remotely functional has joined or wants to join NATO, because absolutely no one wants "Russky Mir".
- UltraViolence 4y ago
  Before Russia invaded Ukraine the U.S. was already prodding to deny Russia access to its Crimean naval bases. This was why Russia saw no other option than to invade and take the Crimea from Ukraine. This is what actually started the ball rolling.
  - baybal2 4y ago
Isinlor 4y ago
Russian aggression started from Ukraine wanting to join EU in 2014, not NATO. There is one really simple fact explaining why Ukraine wants to join EU. Polish and Ukrainian economies were exactly the same size in 1991 after collapse of the Soviet Union. Ukrainian economy was actually a bit bigger in 1990. We had almost the same population of around 40 million people, similar location and culture. Yet, in 2013 Polish economy was almost 3 times bigger than Ukrainian ($521B Polish GDP / $190B Ukrainian GDP = 2.7). By 2021 there were almost 2 million Ukrainian economical immigrants in Poland. Many Ukrainians conclude that being in western sphere of influence is just economically better. Noticeably better, by example of Poland, maybe even 3 times better. Putin on the other hand is afraid that if Ukraine becomes richer than Russia, then Russians will also start revolution. Hence the desire to subjugate or destroy Ukraine by all means. And having your land invaded and annexed by Russia (2014 annexation of Crimea) kind of makes you really want to join NATO. Nobody, not even Putin, could have foreseen that.
- UltraViolence 4y ago
  Every dirt-poor nation in Eastern Europe wants to become part of the EU, especially because of the billions in handouts of the so-called "Infrastructure Funds" which are being pilfered and used to finance nepotistic and corrupt anti-democratic political movements in both Hungary and Poland. Obviously Ukraine wanted a piece of that cake. And so does Belarus and every other former Soviet state al the way to Turkmenistan.

guax 4y ago

"And all this started because we prodded them to become NATO member." When you say this in this way you're taking agency out of Ukraine. They wanted nato membership to be protected from Russian influence, they were being harrased since they became free. Of course NATO would probe them, just like a salesman will try to sell you a car if you walk in a dealership. There is existing interest.

UltraViolence 4y ago
I very much hope that Ukraine wins this war, but won't lose any sleep over it if they don't. I sincerely believe the problem started when the U.S. government Think Tanks in Washington decided Russia should be split up into smaller states without nuclear capability. U.S. policy has been to turn that concept into reality by surrounding Russia with NATO states on its borders and threatening it in the hope its population would rebel and making it ripe for breakup.
- thewinnie 4y ago
  First you start talking about how you fear about Ukraine losing the war. One comment after you are stating its not actually a big deal for you smells fishy
  - UltraViolence 4y ago
    It isn't a big deal for me. I believe if Ukraine loses the war the West doesn't lose anything but its pride, even though Zelensky is implying otherwise. Ukraine fully deserves our support for defending its sovereignty, but it's merely a pawn in the bigger game of Hegemony. If the pawn falls the game will continue.
    - lm555 4y ago
      West doesn't lose anything? I don't even know where to begin. Just a few things: 1. Europe have a problem with resources and Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury. 2. Europe geopolitics – when Ukraine lose, will Putin focus just move on to Moldova and then Serbia and Georgia. And as citizen of small European country I'm afraid that he will soon get copycats because we are back to allowing to redefining borders.
      - justsomehnguy 4y ago
        [flagged]

Mikeb85 4y ago

>And all this started because we prodded them to become NATO member. This is victim blaming. I'm in the Czech Republic right now, ask anyone here if they want the Russians back? There's Ukrainian flags everywhere here and no one dreams of giving up support. Nearly every formerly communist country that's remotely functional has joined or wants to join NATO, because absolutely no one wants "Russky Mir".

UltraViolence 4y ago
Before Russia invaded Ukraine the U.S. was already prodding to deny Russia access to its Crimean naval bases. This was why Russia saw no other option than to invade and take the Crimea from Ukraine. This is what actually started the ball rolling.
- baybal2 4y ago

Isinlor 4y ago

Russian aggression started from Ukraine wanting to join EU in 2014, not NATO. There is one really simple fact explaining why Ukraine wants to join EU. Polish and Ukrainian economies were exactly the same size in 1991 after collapse of the Soviet Union. Ukrainian economy was actually a bit bigger in 1990. We had almost the same population of around 40 million people, similar location and culture. Yet, in 2013 Polish economy was almost 3 times bigger than Ukrainian ($521B Polish GDP / $190B Ukrainian GDP = 2.7). By 2021 there were almost 2 million Ukrainian economical immigrants in Poland. Many Ukrainians conclude that being in western sphere of influence is just economically better. Noticeably better, by example of Poland, maybe even 3 times better. Putin on the other hand is afraid that if Ukraine becomes richer than Russia, then Russians will also start revolution. Hence the desire to subjugate or destroy Ukraine by all means. And having your land invaded and annexed by Russia (2014 annexation of Crimea) kind of makes you really want to join NATO. Nobody, not even Putin, could have foreseen that.

UltraViolence 4y ago
Every dirt-poor nation in Eastern Europe wants to become part of the EU, especially because of the billions in handouts of the so-called "Infrastructure Funds" which are being pilfered and used to finance nepotistic and corrupt anti-democratic political movements in both Hungary and Poland. Obviously Ukraine wanted a piece of that cake. And so does Belarus and every other former Soviet state al the way to Turkmenistan.