7 ms·

I don't know why people even consider going to a private university. Public universities are subsidized by the public. In California, you can go to community co

I don't know why people even consider going to a private university. Public universities are subsidized by the public. In California, you can go to community college for 2 years and get general education out of the way - transfer them classes. It is free if parents make under $40Kper year, or about $2K per year in tuition if over that. And annual tuition at Cal State University is about $6-$7K per year. So basically, you can get a university degree in California for less than $20K. Not including room and board and books, of course. But those costs are the same anywhere, so it zeroes out. Tuition is the biggie.

stjohnswarts 4y ago
Probably the only private schools worth it are the most famous ivy league schools where you can network with some of the richest people in the world (from the point of view of someone not from that 0.01% of wealth)
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  Right. Tier 1 schools are excepted, and they are in a class of their own and almost always worth the price, for sure. But there are little nothing private no-name universities out there that are charging $40-$50K in tuition alone. And people are paying it. For example, Adrian College (???) in Michigan costs $40K per year in tuition. WTF? Landmark College (???) in Vermont - almost $63,000 per year in tuition alone. WTF? St Lawrence University (???) in New York - $62,000 per year in tuition alone. WTF?
  - throwaway74829 4y ago
    What a vulgar rendition: "little nothing no-name universities." There's more to a college than how much money it's going to make you throughout your entire life. In the case of St Lawrence and Adrian: this is where you send your children to if you don't want them to end up "of the world." They're small campuses, in controlled environments, with people from similar backgrounds (i.e. long-time upper middle class, no intentions of "moving up" or down). $40-50k a year for a couple of years is absolutely nothing if you want to make certain your offspring don't end up silly (and if you're of that notion, you surely can cover the cost). For Landmark, it's obvious from a cursory glance of their info that this is a "special case," and different from the rest: it's a college tailored towards those with learning disabilities. Whether or not this justifies the costs is another matter, but it cannot be seriously lumped in as a regular college for comparison. T1 is more marketing than substance. Most of the "Ivy League"s have fallen off since coming into public consciousness, and being flooded by people other than those that once brought it a good name. Even the "grinder schools" (e.g. CMU, MIT, etc.) are following in similar fashion (again, appearance over substance). Will they expose you to a wide range of people that may end up being useful towards some end in the future? Yes, but it's obscene to even think such a thought.
    - JustLurking2022 4y ago
      What century is this? Most people would probably think it a bit ridiculous to spend $40-50k a year trying to prevent kids from being "of the world" or "ending up silly". Even as someone who went to a private university, these are not good reasons to do so. I'd also be interested in any evidence in the supposed downturn among elite universities - last I saw they are still quite effective at putting graduates into the highest echelons of government and industry. Even the supposedly more iconoclast industries like tech are largely inhabited by graduates of top schools.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - throwaway74829 4y ago
        You would fall into the "of the world" camp. There are others, a relative minority but prevalent everywhere, that don't want to be a part of this, nor want their children involved. You will likely never interact with them, and their thoughts and feelings will never reach you -- but that doesn't mean their worlds are inane (or rather, more inane than any other). The deterioration of quality within the "elite universities" is self-evident if one goes by more nuanced measure than "how high up the industrial and political ladder" its graduates reach. What the contrary is, is a matter of values that I will not be elaborating upon (this conversation has become tiring).
        zonethundery 4y ago
        Thank you for your comments. I don't interact with "not of the world" folks much but am always glad when it happens.
        JustLurking2022 4y ago
        Oh, I know people who share your views, including a few relatives. I'm just not into cults. Either you've taught your kids cakes that will stand up in the face of scrutiny and alternative belief systems, or you're peddling junk and hoping that with enough brainwashing and avoiding reality, they won't figure it out.
- gbronner 4y ago
  At least when I went to one, I generally had no idea who had generational wealth (there were a few with famous names), and there weren't obvious ways to show it off; the University had so much money itself that everything was free or nearly so for the students. If you were a billionaire on campus, you still got the same crappy dorm room and wore the same uniform of jeans and t shirts etc. Bragging about how rich your parents are to a bunch of ivy league students isn't going to make you friends. I did get a sense of who was extremely motivated and smart, and, by and large, those people have been the most successful, not the ones who came from money. The ones who came from money were more likely to take 'interesting' vs lucrative jobs, but most of the advantages of networking are knowing other highly motivated people who are at the top of other fields, but knowing rich people. Apart from that, classes at top schools go faster and teach you more, and if you want to, you can take more of them for free. So many students get 5-7 years of mid-tier college content in 4 years, which tends to produce a better trajectory for lifetime earnings.
oneoff786 4y ago
I went to a private mid tier university. I was on a mostly full ride mind you. imo the reason to go to such a place is the lifestyle. The opportunity to make some friends as an adult while you still have a hefty amount of time for leisure; adjust your lifestyle from whatever shape it took in a traditional high school experience; and connect with a group of peers of whatever wealth / academic interest group you prefer is pretty great. Not to say this can’t be done in a community college, but I would imagine it’s less of a dorm vacation.
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  Full ride is always a different situation, of course. We are talking about the high cost of university, obviously if anyone gets a full scholarship, they go to university at the best price. Or a scholarship amount that makes it roughly equivalent to a public university. But most don't get that, and with many private universities at $250K for 4 years, it simply is the worst choice someone can make - to be saddled with that debt. Unless as also stated elsewhere, if you go to a T1 school. I actually did go to my first year to a small private university but that was long ago when it was reasonable. $4,500 for room, board, and tuition. That same exact university is now $60,000 for the same thing. And bringing $4,500 to present day, that is equivalent to about $18,000. I saw zero difference in lifestyle myself. I think this is just one of the things that small universities say to justify their fucked up tuition price. Maybe 40 years ago, you can go for lifestyle, but now....no fucking way. How is a lifestyle worth $250,000? Yes, in a community college it didn'th happen, but it did when I went to the next 2 years at public university in a university town. Also, at the community college, actually I did meet people and hung out with them, as well as made excellent friends elsewhere that I still am friends with. But the whole "dorm vacation"" idea is a loser idea, unless you have a full ride. I can think of a lot of other vacations that I could afford with $240,000. The reason to go to university is one single reason these days - to get one single piece of paper. You are paying for one sheet of paper. That's it. Today. Not 40 and 50 years ago...then it was ok to go for the "experience" and I mean that. But not now. Hells no. Those days are long gone. Shit, you could get a degree in English or History or whatever you wished because you could easily pay for university. Now....best only to get a computer science or business degree. For anything else, just learn on Udemy or Khan academy. No other degrees pays back the cost of college. By the way, here in California, one can go to community college and 2 years of California State University and get a university degree for $15,000 to $20,000 in total. Total cost of a degree (not including room, board and books but one has to pay that anywhere - tuition is issue). Best deal in the world.
tfehring 4y ago
I went to community college for free on Pell grants and then to a similarly priced state school, though not in California. It was a fine option for me and I’m doing well for myself almost a decade later, but it wasn’t a free lunch. I had a hell of a time getting my first job out of college, in no small part because my community college did absolutely nothing to equip me to apply for internships at the start of my junior year. And missing those years with my eventual graduating class definitely left me with a shallower network than my peers - to this day, I’ve gotten every job I’ve ever had through a cold application. Not to mention the signaling impacts. It’s not hard to imagine these drawbacks costing me six figures in earnings over the course of my career. For people whose best available alternative is not to go to college at all, I’d recommend community college + 2 years at a state school with no hesitation. In other cases I don’t think it makes sense to paint with such broad strokes - it depends on the particular student’s career aspirations and the particular college’s aptitude at positioning students to succeed in that field.
- Gortal278 4y ago
  > I had a hell of a time getting my first job out of college, in no small part because my community college did absolutely nothing to equip me to apply for internships at the start of my junior year. I volunteer with a non-profit trying to fix this problem. Check us out? https://mentorsintech.com/ https://mentorsintech.com/
  - tfehring 4y ago
    Thanks for the link, I just applied as a mentor!
    - Gortal278 4y ago
      Thanks, it's pretty rewarding and everyone involved is a good person.
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  I did the exact same thing but had no issues. I think the major issue is communication ability, social abilities, and all that. Someone can have the "ideal best" education, but without social skills, it all does not matter. I've risen to the top of many (small, small) organizations because I understood about social skills and finding out who you need to know and get to be friends with in a company. Being friends with the right people gets you far, far, far ahead of anyone else. I've also got all my jobs through cold outreach. I don't care, I'm pretty fearless and have done a shitload of tradeshows, and sales, and all kinds of stuff like that. I think the thing that hold most people back is social skills and political skills and the ways one can become known as the experts in their industry. It's all on youtube, if you look. Social skills, small talk, business politics, dressing appropriately (I spent a LOT of time at high end men's stores and read GQ from cover to cover for years). https://www.gq.com/ https://www.gq.com/ How one dresses is extremely important. Read it for a year or two, go to high end men's stores - Saks Fifth Avenue for example - https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/mens https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/mens - go in, try stuff on. Look around. I have friends that didn't go to university and are making mid to high six figures. If they can, so can you. Don't let your own mind defeat you, make it your ally.
fatnoah 4y ago
> I don't know why people even consider going to a private university. Public universities are subsidized by the public. I think this is generally true, but for me it was actually cheaper to go to a private university due to scholarships from the private school and zero financial aid from the public one.
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  Yes, for sure that would be the case in your situation. That makes sense, if someone gets a full ride, you go wherever you want. But most private universities are $30-40K/year in tuition. I, for one, am an idiot and qualified for zero kinds of scholarships or aid. You're one of the smarties, so good on you!

stjohnswarts 4y ago

Probably the only private schools worth it are the most famous ivy league schools where you can network with some of the richest people in the world (from the point of view of someone not from that 0.01% of wealth)

FrontierPsych 4y ago
Right. Tier 1 schools are excepted, and they are in a class of their own and almost always worth the price, for sure. But there are little nothing private no-name universities out there that are charging $40-$50K in tuition alone. And people are paying it. For example, Adrian College (???) in Michigan costs $40K per year in tuition. WTF? Landmark College (???) in Vermont - almost $63,000 per year in tuition alone. WTF? St Lawrence University (???) in New York - $62,000 per year in tuition alone. WTF?
- throwaway74829 4y ago
  What a vulgar rendition: "little nothing no-name universities." There's more to a college than how much money it's going to make you throughout your entire life. In the case of St Lawrence and Adrian: this is where you send your children to if you don't want them to end up "of the world." They're small campuses, in controlled environments, with people from similar backgrounds (i.e. long-time upper middle class, no intentions of "moving up" or down). $40-50k a year for a couple of years is absolutely nothing if you want to make certain your offspring don't end up silly (and if you're of that notion, you surely can cover the cost). For Landmark, it's obvious from a cursory glance of their info that this is a "special case," and different from the rest: it's a college tailored towards those with learning disabilities. Whether or not this justifies the costs is another matter, but it cannot be seriously lumped in as a regular college for comparison. T1 is more marketing than substance. Most of the "Ivy League"s have fallen off since coming into public consciousness, and being flooded by people other than those that once brought it a good name. Even the "grinder schools" (e.g. CMU, MIT, etc.) are following in similar fashion (again, appearance over substance). Will they expose you to a wide range of people that may end up being useful towards some end in the future? Yes, but it's obscene to even think such a thought.
  - JustLurking2022 4y ago
    What century is this? Most people would probably think it a bit ridiculous to spend $40-50k a year trying to prevent kids from being "of the world" or "ending up silly". Even as someone who went to a private university, these are not good reasons to do so. I'd also be interested in any evidence in the supposed downturn among elite universities - last I saw they are still quite effective at putting graduates into the highest echelons of government and industry. Even the supposedly more iconoclast industries like tech are largely inhabited by graduates of top schools.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - throwaway74829 4y ago
      You would fall into the "of the world" camp. There are others, a relative minority but prevalent everywhere, that don't want to be a part of this, nor want their children involved. You will likely never interact with them, and their thoughts and feelings will never reach you -- but that doesn't mean their worlds are inane (or rather, more inane than any other). The deterioration of quality within the "elite universities" is self-evident if one goes by more nuanced measure than "how high up the industrial and political ladder" its graduates reach. What the contrary is, is a matter of values that I will not be elaborating upon (this conversation has become tiring).
      - zonethundery 4y ago
        Thank you for your comments. I don't interact with "not of the world" folks much but am always glad when it happens.
      - JustLurking2022 4y ago
        Oh, I know people who share your views, including a few relatives. I'm just not into cults. Either you've taught your kids cakes that will stand up in the face of scrutiny and alternative belief systems, or you're peddling junk and hoping that with enough brainwashing and avoiding reality, they won't figure it out.
gbronner 4y ago
At least when I went to one, I generally had no idea who had generational wealth (there were a few with famous names), and there weren't obvious ways to show it off; the University had so much money itself that everything was free or nearly so for the students. If you were a billionaire on campus, you still got the same crappy dorm room and wore the same uniform of jeans and t shirts etc. Bragging about how rich your parents are to a bunch of ivy league students isn't going to make you friends. I did get a sense of who was extremely motivated and smart, and, by and large, those people have been the most successful, not the ones who came from money. The ones who came from money were more likely to take 'interesting' vs lucrative jobs, but most of the advantages of networking are knowing other highly motivated people who are at the top of other fields, but knowing rich people. Apart from that, classes at top schools go faster and teach you more, and if you want to, you can take more of them for free. So many students get 5-7 years of mid-tier college content in 4 years, which tends to produce a better trajectory for lifetime earnings.

oneoff786 4y ago

I went to a private mid tier university. I was on a mostly full ride mind you. imo the reason to go to such a place is the lifestyle. The opportunity to make some friends as an adult while you still have a hefty amount of time for leisure; adjust your lifestyle from whatever shape it took in a traditional high school experience; and connect with a group of peers of whatever wealth / academic interest group you prefer is pretty great. Not to say this can’t be done in a community college, but I would imagine it’s less of a dorm vacation.

FrontierPsych 4y ago
Full ride is always a different situation, of course. We are talking about the high cost of university, obviously if anyone gets a full scholarship, they go to university at the best price. Or a scholarship amount that makes it roughly equivalent to a public university. But most don't get that, and with many private universities at $250K for 4 years, it simply is the worst choice someone can make - to be saddled with that debt. Unless as also stated elsewhere, if you go to a T1 school. I actually did go to my first year to a small private university but that was long ago when it was reasonable. $4,500 for room, board, and tuition. That same exact university is now $60,000 for the same thing. And bringing $4,500 to present day, that is equivalent to about $18,000. I saw zero difference in lifestyle myself. I think this is just one of the things that small universities say to justify their fucked up tuition price. Maybe 40 years ago, you can go for lifestyle, but now....no fucking way. How is a lifestyle worth $250,000? Yes, in a community college it didn'th happen, but it did when I went to the next 2 years at public university in a university town. Also, at the community college, actually I did meet people and hung out with them, as well as made excellent friends elsewhere that I still am friends with. But the whole "dorm vacation"" idea is a loser idea, unless you have a full ride. I can think of a lot of other vacations that I could afford with $240,000. The reason to go to university is one single reason these days - to get one single piece of paper. You are paying for one sheet of paper. That's it. Today. Not 40 and 50 years ago...then it was ok to go for the "experience" and I mean that. But not now. Hells no. Those days are long gone. Shit, you could get a degree in English or History or whatever you wished because you could easily pay for university. Now....best only to get a computer science or business degree. For anything else, just learn on Udemy or Khan academy. No other degrees pays back the cost of college. By the way, here in California, one can go to community college and 2 years of California State University and get a university degree for $15,000 to $20,000 in total. Total cost of a degree (not including room, board and books but one has to pay that anywhere - tuition is issue). Best deal in the world.

tfehring 4y ago

I went to community college for free on Pell grants and then to a similarly priced state school, though not in California. It was a fine option for me and I’m doing well for myself almost a decade later, but it wasn’t a free lunch. I had a hell of a time getting my first job out of college, in no small part because my community college did absolutely nothing to equip me to apply for internships at the start of my junior year. And missing those years with my eventual graduating class definitely left me with a shallower network than my peers - to this day, I’ve gotten every job I’ve ever had through a cold application. Not to mention the signaling impacts. It’s not hard to imagine these drawbacks costing me six figures in earnings over the course of my career. For people whose best available alternative is not to go to college at all, I’d recommend community college + 2 years at a state school with no hesitation. In other cases I don’t think it makes sense to paint with such broad strokes - it depends on the particular student’s career aspirations and the particular college’s aptitude at positioning students to succeed in that field.

Gortal278 4y ago
> I had a hell of a time getting my first job out of college, in no small part because my community college did absolutely nothing to equip me to apply for internships at the start of my junior year. I volunteer with a non-profit trying to fix this problem. Check us out? https://mentorsintech.com/ https://mentorsintech.com/
- tfehring 4y ago
  Thanks for the link, I just applied as a mentor!
  - Gortal278 4y ago
    Thanks, it's pretty rewarding and everyone involved is a good person.
FrontierPsych 4y ago
I did the exact same thing but had no issues. I think the major issue is communication ability, social abilities, and all that. Someone can have the "ideal best" education, but without social skills, it all does not matter. I've risen to the top of many (small, small) organizations because I understood about social skills and finding out who you need to know and get to be friends with in a company. Being friends with the right people gets you far, far, far ahead of anyone else. I've also got all my jobs through cold outreach. I don't care, I'm pretty fearless and have done a shitload of tradeshows, and sales, and all kinds of stuff like that. I think the thing that hold most people back is social skills and political skills and the ways one can become known as the experts in their industry. It's all on youtube, if you look. Social skills, small talk, business politics, dressing appropriately (I spent a LOT of time at high end men's stores and read GQ from cover to cover for years). https://www.gq.com/ https://www.gq.com/ How one dresses is extremely important. Read it for a year or two, go to high end men's stores - Saks Fifth Avenue for example - https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/mens https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/mens - go in, try stuff on. Look around. I have friends that didn't go to university and are making mid to high six figures. If they can, so can you. Don't let your own mind defeat you, make it your ally.

fatnoah 4y ago

> I don't know why people even consider going to a private university. Public universities are subsidized by the public. I think this is generally true, but for me it was actually cheaper to go to a private university due to scholarships from the private school and zero financial aid from the public one.

FrontierPsych 4y ago
Yes, for sure that would be the case in your situation. That makes sense, if someone gets a full ride, you go wherever you want. But most private universities are $30-40K/year in tuition. I, for one, am an idiot and qualified for zero kinds of scholarships or aid. You're one of the smarties, so good on you!