4 ms·

It is certainly not as clear-cut as you are making it out. It's not theft to "possess" Call of Duty if you never paid for it? Or, say I purchased a record of R

It is certainly not as clear-cut as you are making it out. It's not theft to "possess" Call of Duty if you never paid for it? Or, say I purchased a record of Rolling Stones "Sticky Fingers" back in 1977 or whenever. It is a copyrighted work that I paid for, as you stated. Now, can I go into Sam Goody in 1983 and just walk out with a cassette of the same album? In 1994 can I snag a CD off the shelf at Tower Records? Today, can I demand Amazon or Google or Apple provide me with a MP3 copy? Let's say I bought every single Rolling Stones album, in every format, etc. I own every song they have ever released. Tomorrow they come out with a new box set -- every song in the collection is one that I already own... so now I can possess the box set for free without buying it?

UncleEntity 4y ago
What you can do is copy those onto different media to make a mixed tape to give to your high school girlfriend. Or back them up on your computer. Or load them onto your phone. You’re conflating the physical media with the umm, non-physical media.
skelpmargyar 4y ago
No, you don't possess the box set for free. You already have all the songs in the box set that you paid for, and therefore you already paid for the contents of the box set. You own the box set contents in entirety, just not that specific box set you would walk out with from the store. If you're confusing the medium with the actual work, consider the following. You own an original painting. Is it illegal to take a picture of that painting and not redistribute it? A picture is not an exact replica of the painting, but someone might say it is a close enough copy. What if you copied the painting by hand on a new canvas to be indistinguishable by human eye from the original. How about if you move the painting from one painting frame to another. Is the painting from considered part of the art? Are any of these illegal if you don't redistribute it? Stealing is illegal. If you take a box set, you're stealing the DVDs not just the contents of the DVDs. If you remux a movie, you didn't pay for that exact version that you now possess. Is that illegal if you don't redistribute it? If you buy a fork, 3D scan it and then 3D print it and eat dinner with it, is it illegal? It all comes down to laws of one's country. But your analogy doesn't work because you're talking about physically stealing media and we're talking about digital piracy. Some countries it's actually not illegal to download, only upload. It gets even more complicated in the US when it comes to federal and state laws, copyright law, fair use, personal property, etc. I agree that it is not as clear cut legal as he's making it, but it's not as clear cut illegal as I feel you are making it.
- listenallyall 4y ago
  Doesn't seem to be much dispute that stealing a physical copy is in fact illegal, it's theft. I agree, you agree. Please show me where an exception has been made in any law that says, theft doesn't apply when the goods in question are digital. Digital goods are goods, they have value, they are sold, and they can be stolen/pirated/"borrowed"/whatever words make you feel better. Do I think the actual likelihood of an individual being prosecuted or sued for downloading torrents is more than 0.000001%? I do not. But getting away with it is not the same as being in the clear.
  - skelpmargyar 4y ago
    There isn't an exception that I know of. What I'm saying is if you download a torrent for a movie that you own you can still get a copyright notice. That doesn't really make sense to me.
phpisthebest 4y ago
>>It's not theft to "possess" Call of Duty if you never paid for it? From a US law it is not even theft to distribute it, it is infringement of copyright which is not theft. >Now, can I go into Sam Goody in 1983 and just walk out with a cassette of the same album? That is shoplifting of a physical product, very very different than replication of digital product if you were from the future with a Star Trek replicator an when in to Sam Goody, Scanned the Cassette and made a perfect replica of it it would not be theft Similar if I am a talent artist and I make a perfect replica of a famous Painting to hang on my own wall it would not be a crime, it would only be a crime if I attempted to sell the painting as if it was the original work See that is the key point, duplication of copyright is not a crime, selling it is, distributing it to others is.
- listenallyall 4y ago
  > you were from the future with a Star Trek replicator an when in to Sam Goody, Scanned the Cassette and made a perfect replica of it it would not be theft This is certainly false, no need to speculate. There is presently an entire underground industry of fake Louis Vuitton handbags, and other luxury brands. The goods may be amazing replicas but the legality is clear... an unauthorized source simply cannot produce LV handbags at will, and knowingly purchasing one is not legal either. Do I think there is any actual risk that an individual person would be prosecuted for buying one of these bags? As I said elsewhere, no. It still doesn't make it legal.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Again the problem here is not the duplicate bag, it is the act of SELLING or DISTRIBUTING the bag I can take material and make an exact replica of a Louis Vuitton handbag for my own personal use, however if I tried to SELL it as a Louis Vuitton handbag it would be fraud and trademark violation. So in the case of the Sam Goody, Scanned the Cassette I can take a star Trek replica for my own personal use, perfectly legal. I just could not SELL IT, or DISTRIBUTE IT >> and knowingly purchasing one is not legal either. I would love to see the statute on that, not saying your wrong but it would have to be a local law and I bet would not apply to the context of a digital download. Edit: Under US Federal law there is no prohibition on Knowingly buying counterfeit goods ( https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/buying-counterfeit-goods-laws-and-resources.html https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/buyin... )

UncleEntity 4y ago

What you can do is copy those onto different media to make a mixed tape to give to your high school girlfriend. Or back them up on your computer. Or load them onto your phone. You’re conflating the physical media with the umm, non-physical media.

skelpmargyar 4y ago

No, you don't possess the box set for free. You already have all the songs in the box set that you paid for, and therefore you already paid for the contents of the box set. You own the box set contents in entirety, just not that specific box set you would walk out with from the store. If you're confusing the medium with the actual work, consider the following. You own an original painting. Is it illegal to take a picture of that painting and not redistribute it? A picture is not an exact replica of the painting, but someone might say it is a close enough copy. What if you copied the painting by hand on a new canvas to be indistinguishable by human eye from the original. How about if you move the painting from one painting frame to another. Is the painting from considered part of the art? Are any of these illegal if you don't redistribute it? Stealing is illegal. If you take a box set, you're stealing the DVDs not just the contents of the DVDs. If you remux a movie, you didn't pay for that exact version that you now possess. Is that illegal if you don't redistribute it? If you buy a fork, 3D scan it and then 3D print it and eat dinner with it, is it illegal? It all comes down to laws of one's country. But your analogy doesn't work because you're talking about physically stealing media and we're talking about digital piracy. Some countries it's actually not illegal to download, only upload. It gets even more complicated in the US when it comes to federal and state laws, copyright law, fair use, personal property, etc. I agree that it is not as clear cut legal as he's making it, but it's not as clear cut illegal as I feel you are making it.

listenallyall 4y ago
Doesn't seem to be much dispute that stealing a physical copy is in fact illegal, it's theft. I agree, you agree. Please show me where an exception has been made in any law that says, theft doesn't apply when the goods in question are digital. Digital goods are goods, they have value, they are sold, and they can be stolen/pirated/"borrowed"/whatever words make you feel better. Do I think the actual likelihood of an individual being prosecuted or sued for downloading torrents is more than 0.000001%? I do not. But getting away with it is not the same as being in the clear.
- skelpmargyar 4y ago
  There isn't an exception that I know of. What I'm saying is if you download a torrent for a movie that you own you can still get a copyright notice. That doesn't really make sense to me.

phpisthebest 4y ago

>>It's not theft to "possess" Call of Duty if you never paid for it? From a US law it is not even theft to distribute it, it is infringement of copyright which is not theft. >Now, can I go into Sam Goody in 1983 and just walk out with a cassette of the same album? That is shoplifting of a physical product, very very different than replication of digital product if you were from the future with a Star Trek replicator an when in to Sam Goody, Scanned the Cassette and made a perfect replica of it it would not be theft Similar if I am a talent artist and I make a perfect replica of a famous Painting to hang on my own wall it would not be a crime, it would only be a crime if I attempted to sell the painting as if it was the original work See that is the key point, duplication of copyright is not a crime, selling it is, distributing it to others is.

listenallyall 4y ago
> you were from the future with a Star Trek replicator an when in to Sam Goody, Scanned the Cassette and made a perfect replica of it it would not be theft This is certainly false, no need to speculate. There is presently an entire underground industry of fake Louis Vuitton handbags, and other luxury brands. The goods may be amazing replicas but the legality is clear... an unauthorized source simply cannot produce LV handbags at will, and knowingly purchasing one is not legal either. Do I think there is any actual risk that an individual person would be prosecuted for buying one of these bags? As I said elsewhere, no. It still doesn't make it legal.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Again the problem here is not the duplicate bag, it is the act of SELLING or DISTRIBUTING the bag I can take material and make an exact replica of a Louis Vuitton handbag for my own personal use, however if I tried to SELL it as a Louis Vuitton handbag it would be fraud and trademark violation. So in the case of the Sam Goody, Scanned the Cassette I can take a star Trek replica for my own personal use, perfectly legal. I just could not SELL IT, or DISTRIBUTE IT >> and knowingly purchasing one is not legal either. I would love to see the statute on that, not saying your wrong but it would have to be a local law and I bet would not apply to the context of a digital download. Edit: Under US Federal law there is no prohibition on Knowingly buying counterfeit goods ( https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/buying-counterfeit-goods-laws-and-resources.html https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/buyin... )