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Twitter is home to many of these conmen. Fitness geeks posing as natural bodybuilders, promoting heavy meat diets etc., pushing their own brand of supplements,

Twitter is home to many of these conmen. Fitness geeks posing as natural bodybuilders, promoting heavy meat diets etc., pushing their own brand of supplements, but they owe their form mostly to steroid abuse. Taking fitness or nutritional advice from a bodybuilder is like taking financial advice from SBF.

moonchrome 4y ago
That's not really true - there are natural bodybuilders/powerlifters - I'd say people like Layne Norton are likely natural and give good advice backed by multiple studies (as good as it gets although still not perfect). There's also people open about steroid use although that part is a bit more gray because of legal issues and stuff. Even with steroids you have to know what you're doing exercise/nutrition wise to get impressive results (and still need good genetics). But a lot of people lie about steroids, I mean look at Hollywood - The Rock claiming natural at his age is just. It's definitely setting up wrong expectations for people. At any rate, one thing that took me a while to realize when I was starting out lifting - BB advice is specific to highly trained people/bodybuilders. Like "you can't gain muscle and lose fat". You absolutely can if you're high body fat % and untrained. If you're getting close to 10% BF - not as efficient even with steroids - that's why they cycle bulk/lean. But if you're just getting into shape - cycling will probably mess with your metabolism. Any professional athlete is probably a terrible role model for healthy lifestyle.
- semireg 4y ago
  Re: Any professional athlete is probably a terrible role model for healthy lifestyle. This reminded me of a pro cyclist write-up where they regretted the absence of oral hygiene… years of glucose gel being squirted into their mouths at intervals for hours and hours every day. cringe
  - Rantenki 4y ago
    Breathing through your mouth for hours at a time _while_ doing that ^. Also not good. Your gums get dried out. Lots of endurance athletes take the "long in the tooth" look a few steps further than usual. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2018/jun/high-levels-oral-disease-among-elite-athletes-affecting-performance https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2018/jun/high-levels-oral-disease...
- isitmadeofglass 4y ago
  Yes Layne Norton is completely natural. And his impressive transformation comes from having found an incredible method based on his research and working with several personal trainers. And you can be sure of that because why would he lie? He has nothing except his entire career and personal fortune on the line. But we can be fairly sure that his transformation which looks to be a pretty center of the bell curve for people who are admittedly on steroids is in fact a far right tail case of the bell curve of people who do not take steroids, because that’s what scientists do right, assume the unlikely over the likely in cases where the prior would suggest the straight forward answer right?
  - moonchrome 4y ago
    I've seen people I 100% know are natural (as in I've used steroids, knew people using them, knew few people who were gym rats and were interested but were way too squeemish to take the plunge) have similar physique as Layne. What transformation are we talking about ? Due has been lifting since teens and posted pics AFAIK. Haven't followed that part of his career TBH. Anyway the dude looks like upper limit natty - maybe he's on TRT maybe he isn't - his advice is mostly research based and he's basically the guy shitting on FOTM diets.
- tarsinge 4y ago
  > Even with steroids you have to know what you're doing exercise/nutrition wise to get impressive results (and still need good genetics). To get impressive results yes, but not to get results: https://fitness.stackexchange.com/a/19397 https://fitness.stackexchange.com/a/19397 > There have been documented tests that show steroid use without weight training will still increase your muscle mass just as someone who workouts and doesn't use steroids.
CapricornNoble 4y ago
Conmen and conwomen. Just search for "female influencers anavar". A lot of "Girlswhosquat" or gym bunnies are juiced to the gills too.
trappist 4y ago
> promoting heavy meat diets The ones not promoting heavy meat diets are generally recommending (and/or shilling) supplements of nutrients you get for free on a heavy meat diet, such as protein shakes and creatine powder.
- 1_over_n 4y ago
  Seasoned (non-enhanced) lifter here with a science background There is a solid evidence base for creatine - it's one of the only supplements that actually has a decent evidence base. It's also relatively cheap and generic brands work. Generally with the fitness industry, the key is looking for the quality sources of information. There are some good resources out there focussed on an evidence based and naturals or being open & transparent with information about "the dark side"... - SSD abel - Geoffrey Verity Schofield - Team 3DMJ - Dr Mike Israetel - Stronger by Science - Brains and Gains with Dr. David Maconi Also.....one of the biggest benefits of regular exercise and lifting for me personally is the mental health side of things. Really can't overstate this.
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  There’s nothing wrong with supplementing nutrients that we know can be supplemented. I certainly don’t see the reason not to that doesn’t cash out into sophistry or some notion of naturalistic fallacy. Requiring every nutrient to come from food seems arbitrary, especially with nutrients that tend to be added to the product upstream, like supps given to animals or vitamin D in milk.
SlowAndCalm 4y ago
Not to defend anyone; but being around a lot of these people, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance when it comes to nutrition whilst on steroids. People often attempt to switch up their diet when starting and give it outsized attribution to their success. It isn't helped by people with poor diets not getting the same results, but in my experience it often has more to do with a person that can consistently eat chicken and broccoli will be more consistent with pinning, etc. than a person that can't stick to a diet.

moonchrome 4y ago

That's not really true - there are natural bodybuilders/powerlifters - I'd say people like Layne Norton are likely natural and give good advice backed by multiple studies (as good as it gets although still not perfect). There's also people open about steroid use although that part is a bit more gray because of legal issues and stuff. Even with steroids you have to know what you're doing exercise/nutrition wise to get impressive results (and still need good genetics). But a lot of people lie about steroids, I mean look at Hollywood - The Rock claiming natural at his age is just. It's definitely setting up wrong expectations for people. At any rate, one thing that took me a while to realize when I was starting out lifting - BB advice is specific to highly trained people/bodybuilders. Like "you can't gain muscle and lose fat". You absolutely can if you're high body fat % and untrained. If you're getting close to 10% BF - not as efficient even with steroids - that's why they cycle bulk/lean. But if you're just getting into shape - cycling will probably mess with your metabolism. Any professional athlete is probably a terrible role model for healthy lifestyle.

semireg 4y ago
Re: Any professional athlete is probably a terrible role model for healthy lifestyle. This reminded me of a pro cyclist write-up where they regretted the absence of oral hygiene… years of glucose gel being squirted into their mouths at intervals for hours and hours every day. cringe
- Rantenki 4y ago
  Breathing through your mouth for hours at a time _while_ doing that ^. Also not good. Your gums get dried out. Lots of endurance athletes take the "long in the tooth" look a few steps further than usual. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2018/jun/high-levels-oral-disease-among-elite-athletes-affecting-performance https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2018/jun/high-levels-oral-disease...
isitmadeofglass 4y ago
Yes Layne Norton is completely natural. And his impressive transformation comes from having found an incredible method based on his research and working with several personal trainers. And you can be sure of that because why would he lie? He has nothing except his entire career and personal fortune on the line. But we can be fairly sure that his transformation which looks to be a pretty center of the bell curve for people who are admittedly on steroids is in fact a far right tail case of the bell curve of people who do not take steroids, because that’s what scientists do right, assume the unlikely over the likely in cases where the prior would suggest the straight forward answer right?
- moonchrome 4y ago
  I've seen people I 100% know are natural (as in I've used steroids, knew people using them, knew few people who were gym rats and were interested but were way too squeemish to take the plunge) have similar physique as Layne. What transformation are we talking about ? Due has been lifting since teens and posted pics AFAIK. Haven't followed that part of his career TBH. Anyway the dude looks like upper limit natty - maybe he's on TRT maybe he isn't - his advice is mostly research based and he's basically the guy shitting on FOTM diets.
tarsinge 4y ago
> Even with steroids you have to know what you're doing exercise/nutrition wise to get impressive results (and still need good genetics). To get impressive results yes, but not to get results: https://fitness.stackexchange.com/a/19397 https://fitness.stackexchange.com/a/19397 > There have been documented tests that show steroid use without weight training will still increase your muscle mass just as someone who workouts and doesn't use steroids.

CapricornNoble 4y ago

Conmen and conwomen. Just search for "female influencers anavar". A lot of "Girlswhosquat" or gym bunnies are juiced to the gills too.

trappist 4y ago

> promoting heavy meat diets The ones not promoting heavy meat diets are generally recommending (and/or shilling) supplements of nutrients you get for free on a heavy meat diet, such as protein shakes and creatine powder.

1_over_n 4y ago
Seasoned (non-enhanced) lifter here with a science background There is a solid evidence base for creatine - it's one of the only supplements that actually has a decent evidence base. It's also relatively cheap and generic brands work. Generally with the fitness industry, the key is looking for the quality sources of information. There are some good resources out there focussed on an evidence based and naturals or being open & transparent with information about "the dark side"... - SSD abel - Geoffrey Verity Schofield - Team 3DMJ - Dr Mike Israetel - Stronger by Science - Brains and Gains with Dr. David Maconi Also.....one of the biggest benefits of regular exercise and lifting for me personally is the mental health side of things. Really can't overstate this.
hombre_fatal 4y ago
There’s nothing wrong with supplementing nutrients that we know can be supplemented. I certainly don’t see the reason not to that doesn’t cash out into sophistry or some notion of naturalistic fallacy. Requiring every nutrient to come from food seems arbitrary, especially with nutrients that tend to be added to the product upstream, like supps given to animals or vitamin D in milk.

SlowAndCalm 4y ago

Not to defend anyone; but being around a lot of these people, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance when it comes to nutrition whilst on steroids. People often attempt to switch up their diet when starting and give it outsized attribution to their success. It isn't helped by people with poor diets not getting the same results, but in my experience it often has more to do with a person that can consistently eat chicken and broccoli will be more consistent with pinning, etc. than a person that can't stick to a diet.