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I have been proper caving twice. Once, in Budapest, I got stuck in a little hole called the Winnie the Pooh for about 15 minutes. That was nerve-wracking, but I

I have been proper caving twice. Once, in Budapest, I got stuck in a little hole called the Winnie the Pooh for about 15 minutes. That was nerve-wracking, but I could see other people so it wasn’t so bad. In Georgia, I went with well trained cavers from my school. We belly crawled through a slot so small I had to turn my head sideways to fit. It was cold, wet, and very scary. I have rarely felt as much relief as I did upon emerging.

beached_whale 4y ago
I am getting anxious just thinking about that. Big nope for me. But awesome that you did it, I just don't want to conquer that fear.
- echelon 4y ago
  A whole lot of nope from me, too. Between what happened to John Jones in Nutty Putty Cave, the (urban legend?) of Masha in the catacombs, horror movies like "The Descent", or even just events like the Surfside condo collapse, I can't do dark underground caves or structures that might collapse. When my friends went spelunking and invited me to go, I told them I'd take a rain check. Maybe the risks are negligible, but every one of my alarm bells goes off.
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    Same it really really freaks me out reading about this stuff. Instant panic attacks. I guess I’m claustrophobic? The closest freaky / claustrophobic experience I remember was during a hike upon entering into a train tunnel…for some reason…it was pitch black dark. Once we were probably half way in I realised how insanely idiotic we were for going in. Then I realised the tunnel was really much longer than we anticipated, the light at the end became tiny. There was probably manholes in the side we could jump into if needs be but it was hard to see. Two things were going through our minds, do we hide in man holes and go slowly, or run? We ran ! Of course my friend hurt his ankle So I was hobbling out of there with him over my shoulder. I never remember how relived I was we made it out. Not long after, a train came around the corner quite fast, would’ve been a horrible tragedy. Bring in that tunnel when a huge freight train was in there wouldn’t have been very enjoyable to say the least.
tonetheman 4y ago
I have been to some caves around TN but nothing like what you described. That is a big nope from me. Are you a professional caver or just someone who likes to do it. The places you mentioned seem like a place that a novice would not be.
- sky_rw 4y ago
  How does one become a _professional_ caver?
  - msrenee 4y ago
    I suppose you'd have to find a way to make a living off of it.
    - Mister_X 4y ago
      There are very few "professional cavers", i.e. those who are paid to go into caves. It's mostly hard core cavers who do the majority of cave exploration, surveying/mapping and biological/archeological inventory in caves around the world. Almost all of us are volunteers, and arrange our lives around caving, not our jobs, it's a passion that consumes us. Before retiring from caving due to health issues, I caved with the best of the best for years, and none of us were/are "adventure seekers", not even close, we are pragmatic, calm, and seriously experienced in cave exploration, as opposed to those who are untrained casual cave explorers (what we call "spelunkers", i.e. flashlight cavers).
      - msrenee 4y ago
        That's kind of the feeling I had. There's experienced cavers that know what they're doing, but "professional" (at least in the sense of getting paid to do it) isn't really a thing. Kudos to you and the work you and like-minded individuals put into exploring and mapping these systems.
  - SyzygistSix 4y ago
    From being a very savvy, able, and experienced non-professional caver. I knew someone who did cave mapping and even some computer programming along those lines. That's the kind of thing that will get you a professional job. That, or imagine some kind of scientific research.
trident5000 4y ago
Nutty Putty Cave is the most horrifying way to die I have ever read and I have no interest in caving after reading about it.
- geocrasher 4y ago
  Yeah. No thanks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutty_Putty_Cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutty_Putty_Cave There's one worse, though... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Collins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Collins
  - Mister_X 4y ago
    Both of those stories garnered world wide attention, but one of the positive unintended consequences of those tragic events was that they scared many "adventure seekers" enough that they stayed away from cave exploration, which is a "good" thing. About 30 years ago I became trapped in an alpine cave in a way very similar to Floyd Collins, when a football sized piece of marble fell from the ceiling about 30 feet into a virgin body sized phreatic tube I was exploring. It landed on my ankle, pinning it so I couldn't move forward or back, and the passage was so tight that I couldn't move my free leg to dislodge it, and yes, Floyd Collins entrapment was the first thing I thought of. Thankfully, I had two things in my favor, one was I had a caving partner on the surface who knew where I was, and I could communicate with, so if I couldn't self rescue she could hike the 5 miles back to a road end and get help (no cell phone service back then). And two, I was an experienced caver, so I remained very calm, and kept working my free foot in order to attempt to dislodge the rock pinning my ankle, and after about 10 minutes I was able to somehow with great effort, shift the rock enough that I could move deeper into the cave. I crawled forward another 15 feet to a pit about 20 feet deep that I was able to free climb into so I could turn around and head back out, and was able to push the rock ahead of me and I got out just fine. It didn't phase me one bit, as I'd had much more serious life threatening events in caves previously (almost "flat rocked" in Lechuguilla Cave, NM), but I was well aware that it could have been a serious situation as it got down into the 20's at night in that location, so hypothermia was a real possibility. The lesson here for non cavers is, don't explore caves alone, especially if nobody knows where you are, and get proper training before doing so, from a local "grotto" (chapter) of the National Speleological Society https://caves.org/ https://caves.org/ .
yieldcrv 4y ago
Being able to see or hear other people doesn't guarantee that you will get out Thats gonna be a no for me dawg
- bamboozled 4y ago
  Thought the same thing, it doesn’t really matter about having someone knowing where you are ?
SoftTalker 4y ago
In high school a few friends and I explored a local cave with a passage like that. The ceiling got lower and lower until you had to lie flat and turn your head. The final part of the passage was known as "the birth canal." It wasn't a big deal at the time, but I would not want to repeat it now (some 40 years later).
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  I initially posted "Airman's?", referring to a cave near Austin with a "Birth canal" passage... but it then it occurred to me that most caves worth mentioning probably have just such a passage, very likely with just such a name. (If there was a room known as the "Aggie Art Gallery," on the other hand... well, that's the cave I'm referring to.)
- antihero 4y ago
  That the same one that killed John Edward Jones?
_carbyau_ 4y ago
Did caving for a bit. I enjoyed the "mind game" bit of it. When going into small spaces sometimes people enter a bad mental spiral of: feeling a bit squished, have a doubt that maybe the wall/ceiling moved, tense up further etc etc. It is a weird mental thing because this cave has likely been largely this way for a looooooong time. It wasn't waiting for you to come along... but such are mind games. People tended to crack more as you get tired. Physical fitness helped as well as being comfortable with your gear. Rope stuff was easy enough and fun, though a bit tiring.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  If you want to train yourself by repeatedly exposing your mind to fear of death (and the best part of overcoming it), ie rock climbing is much more approachable way. Your subconscious mind only partially understands the concept of rope and safety it brings, and being few tens of meters above ground puts out some very real emotions and fear of death out, especially when protection placement is quite apart. But you still have equipment that can handle easily 2 tonnes of static load and few of you in worst possible dynamic fall.
- mywacaday 4y ago
  I went to visit a local cave that has been setup for tours with the kids a few weeks ago. There is a stalagmite/stalagtite pair that are 1cm away from touching and has been that way since the cave was discovered and surveyed in the 1830s, these were 2+ meters each, geological timescales are crazy.
poulpy123 4y ago
The people who brought you to the Georgia cave were dangerously uncautious. You don't bring a beginners in this kind of caves
- Hnrobert42 4y ago
  It was a a lot for a beginner but not dangerously so. These were highly experienced cavers and great teachers. We all had wilderness first aid training, some with WFR. Several of them were part of the regional cave search and rescue. The problem was that I tagged along on one of their fun trips rather than taking a class, so the difficulty was not calibrated for me. Even so, while it pushed me mentally, it wasn’t physically dangerous. I appreciate your concern though.
gautamcgoel 4y ago
Was this ORGT at Georgia Tech? I have very fond memories of their caving group!
- Hnrobert42 4y ago
  Haha. It was indeed. The whole organization was great, although I think it change a good bit after they moved to the new SAC.

beached_whale 4y ago

I am getting anxious just thinking about that. Big nope for me. But awesome that you did it, I just don't want to conquer that fear.

echelon 4y ago
A whole lot of nope from me, too. Between what happened to John Jones in Nutty Putty Cave, the (urban legend?) of Masha in the catacombs, horror movies like "The Descent", or even just events like the Surfside condo collapse, I can't do dark underground caves or structures that might collapse. When my friends went spelunking and invited me to go, I told them I'd take a rain check. Maybe the risks are negligible, but every one of my alarm bells goes off.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  Same it really really freaks me out reading about this stuff. Instant panic attacks. I guess I’m claustrophobic? The closest freaky / claustrophobic experience I remember was during a hike upon entering into a train tunnel…for some reason…it was pitch black dark. Once we were probably half way in I realised how insanely idiotic we were for going in. Then I realised the tunnel was really much longer than we anticipated, the light at the end became tiny. There was probably manholes in the side we could jump into if needs be but it was hard to see. Two things were going through our minds, do we hide in man holes and go slowly, or run? We ran ! Of course my friend hurt his ankle So I was hobbling out of there with him over my shoulder. I never remember how relived I was we made it out. Not long after, a train came around the corner quite fast, would’ve been a horrible tragedy. Bring in that tunnel when a huge freight train was in there wouldn’t have been very enjoyable to say the least.

tonetheman 4y ago

I have been to some caves around TN but nothing like what you described. That is a big nope from me. Are you a professional caver or just someone who likes to do it. The places you mentioned seem like a place that a novice would not be.

sky_rw 4y ago
How does one become a _professional_ caver?
- msrenee 4y ago
  I suppose you'd have to find a way to make a living off of it.
  - Mister_X 4y ago
    There are very few "professional cavers", i.e. those who are paid to go into caves. It's mostly hard core cavers who do the majority of cave exploration, surveying/mapping and biological/archeological inventory in caves around the world. Almost all of us are volunteers, and arrange our lives around caving, not our jobs, it's a passion that consumes us. Before retiring from caving due to health issues, I caved with the best of the best for years, and none of us were/are "adventure seekers", not even close, we are pragmatic, calm, and seriously experienced in cave exploration, as opposed to those who are untrained casual cave explorers (what we call "spelunkers", i.e. flashlight cavers).
    - msrenee 4y ago
      That's kind of the feeling I had. There's experienced cavers that know what they're doing, but "professional" (at least in the sense of getting paid to do it) isn't really a thing. Kudos to you and the work you and like-minded individuals put into exploring and mapping these systems.
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  From being a very savvy, able, and experienced non-professional caver. I knew someone who did cave mapping and even some computer programming along those lines. That's the kind of thing that will get you a professional job. That, or imagine some kind of scientific research.

trident5000 4y ago

Nutty Putty Cave is the most horrifying way to die I have ever read and I have no interest in caving after reading about it.

geocrasher 4y ago
Yeah. No thanks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutty_Putty_Cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutty_Putty_Cave There's one worse, though... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Collins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Collins
- Mister_X 4y ago
  Both of those stories garnered world wide attention, but one of the positive unintended consequences of those tragic events was that they scared many "adventure seekers" enough that they stayed away from cave exploration, which is a "good" thing. About 30 years ago I became trapped in an alpine cave in a way very similar to Floyd Collins, when a football sized piece of marble fell from the ceiling about 30 feet into a virgin body sized phreatic tube I was exploring. It landed on my ankle, pinning it so I couldn't move forward or back, and the passage was so tight that I couldn't move my free leg to dislodge it, and yes, Floyd Collins entrapment was the first thing I thought of. Thankfully, I had two things in my favor, one was I had a caving partner on the surface who knew where I was, and I could communicate with, so if I couldn't self rescue she could hike the 5 miles back to a road end and get help (no cell phone service back then). And two, I was an experienced caver, so I remained very calm, and kept working my free foot in order to attempt to dislodge the rock pinning my ankle, and after about 10 minutes I was able to somehow with great effort, shift the rock enough that I could move deeper into the cave. I crawled forward another 15 feet to a pit about 20 feet deep that I was able to free climb into so I could turn around and head back out, and was able to push the rock ahead of me and I got out just fine. It didn't phase me one bit, as I'd had much more serious life threatening events in caves previously (almost "flat rocked" in Lechuguilla Cave, NM), but I was well aware that it could have been a serious situation as it got down into the 20's at night in that location, so hypothermia was a real possibility. The lesson here for non cavers is, don't explore caves alone, especially if nobody knows where you are, and get proper training before doing so, from a local "grotto" (chapter) of the National Speleological Society https://caves.org/ https://caves.org/ .

yieldcrv 4y ago

Being able to see or hear other people doesn't guarantee that you will get out Thats gonna be a no for me dawg

bamboozled 4y ago
Thought the same thing, it doesn’t really matter about having someone knowing where you are ?

SoftTalker 4y ago

In high school a few friends and I explored a local cave with a passage like that. The ceiling got lower and lower until you had to lie flat and turn your head. The final part of the passage was known as "the birth canal." It wasn't a big deal at the time, but I would not want to repeat it now (some 40 years later).

CamperBob2 4y ago
I initially posted "Airman's?", referring to a cave near Austin with a "Birth canal" passage... but it then it occurred to me that most caves worth mentioning probably have just such a passage, very likely with just such a name. (If there was a room known as the "Aggie Art Gallery," on the other hand... well, that's the cave I'm referring to.)
antihero 4y ago
That the same one that killed John Edward Jones?

_carbyau_ 4y ago

Did caving for a bit. I enjoyed the "mind game" bit of it. When going into small spaces sometimes people enter a bad mental spiral of: feeling a bit squished, have a doubt that maybe the wall/ceiling moved, tense up further etc etc. It is a weird mental thing because this cave has likely been largely this way for a looooooong time. It wasn't waiting for you to come along... but such are mind games. People tended to crack more as you get tired. Physical fitness helped as well as being comfortable with your gear. Rope stuff was easy enough and fun, though a bit tiring.

saiya-jin 4y ago
If you want to train yourself by repeatedly exposing your mind to fear of death (and the best part of overcoming it), ie rock climbing is much more approachable way. Your subconscious mind only partially understands the concept of rope and safety it brings, and being few tens of meters above ground puts out some very real emotions and fear of death out, especially when protection placement is quite apart. But you still have equipment that can handle easily 2 tonnes of static load and few of you in worst possible dynamic fall.
mywacaday 4y ago
I went to visit a local cave that has been setup for tours with the kids a few weeks ago. There is a stalagmite/stalagtite pair that are 1cm away from touching and has been that way since the cave was discovered and surveyed in the 1830s, these were 2+ meters each, geological timescales are crazy.

poulpy123 4y ago

The people who brought you to the Georgia cave were dangerously uncautious. You don't bring a beginners in this kind of caves

Hnrobert42 4y ago
It was a a lot for a beginner but not dangerously so. These were highly experienced cavers and great teachers. We all had wilderness first aid training, some with WFR. Several of them were part of the regional cave search and rescue. The problem was that I tagged along on one of their fun trips rather than taking a class, so the difficulty was not calibrated for me. Even so, while it pushed me mentally, it wasn’t physically dangerous. I appreciate your concern though.

gautamcgoel 4y ago

Was this ORGT at Georgia Tech? I have very fond memories of their caving group!

Hnrobert42 4y ago
Haha. It was indeed. The whole organization was great, although I think it change a good bit after they moved to the new SAC.