4 ms·

Ok apart from the "OMG strikebreakers in this day and age!" reaction what I am trying to get my head around is ... how n somewhere more sane like say Germany, U

Ok apart from the "OMG strikebreakers in this day and age!" reaction what I am trying to get my head around is ... how n somewhere more sane like say Germany, Unions are ... look, why not replace management with unions? I mean a union rep is actually voted for by the employees. Most management is administrative and the important bits (allocation of resource, leadership and vision) are hardly done by the managers (it sort of becomes a hodge podge of people agreeing a vision and allocating themselves because they actually understood the vision). Anyway - Am looking for a way to get democracy into companies and realised that it's kinda already there

eru 4y ago
> look, why not replace management with unions? Unions are free to start businesses, aren't they? Workers can also form cooperatives. Ages ago I was doing an internship at SAP in Walldorf, Germany. At the time, SAP had just gotten 'Mitbestimmung' und union representatives. By German law you only need a handful of workers to demand this, no need to win any majority. Let's just say, the union folks weren't popular with the rank and file employees I spoke to. > Anyway - Am looking for a way to get democracy into companies and realised that it's kinda already there Well, there's also shareholder democracy. But why do you even want democracy in the workplace? When I don't like the burgers at McDonald's, I don't try to vote to make them better; I just go over to Burger King next door.
- lifeisstillgood 4y ago
  Why ? Something something 50% + of resource allocation is done inside fiefdoms where theoretically the CeO / major shareholder has dictatorial power Plus most (large) companies have serious efficiency problems - I think the solution to bureaucracy is not going to be what got us there. plus I find most arguments that are "free market works" to be laughable in the face of experience
  - Nevermark 4y ago
    Corporations often trade off the efficiency of many small things, even pervasive things, for overall greater effectiveness. It can be frustrating for workers and customers, and it’s not always a trade that pays off, but it works enough for many companies to be both chronically inefficient and successful. Leadership optimizes for effective control toward increasing total income. They don’t worry about waste that could be a distraction to eliminate, create unpredictability for small payoffs, or if it’s offset (in their view) by greater income.
kramerger 4y ago
This is going too far, and honestly has a Egor Putilov smell to me.

eru 4y ago

> look, why not replace management with unions? Unions are free to start businesses, aren't they? Workers can also form cooperatives. Ages ago I was doing an internship at SAP in Walldorf, Germany. At the time, SAP had just gotten 'Mitbestimmung' und union representatives. By German law you only need a handful of workers to demand this, no need to win any majority. Let's just say, the union folks weren't popular with the rank and file employees I spoke to. > Anyway - Am looking for a way to get democracy into companies and realised that it's kinda already there Well, there's also shareholder democracy. But why do you even want democracy in the workplace? When I don't like the burgers at McDonald's, I don't try to vote to make them better; I just go over to Burger King next door.

lifeisstillgood 4y ago
Why ? Something something 50% + of resource allocation is done inside fiefdoms where theoretically the CeO / major shareholder has dictatorial power Plus most (large) companies have serious efficiency problems - I think the solution to bureaucracy is not going to be what got us there. plus I find most arguments that are "free market works" to be laughable in the face of experience
- Nevermark 4y ago
  Corporations often trade off the efficiency of many small things, even pervasive things, for overall greater effectiveness. It can be frustrating for workers and customers, and it’s not always a trade that pays off, but it works enough for many companies to be both chronically inefficient and successful. Leadership optimizes for effective control toward increasing total income. They don’t worry about waste that could be a distraction to eliminate, create unpredictability for small payoffs, or if it’s offset (in their view) by greater income.

kramerger 4y ago

This is going too far, and honestly has a Egor Putilov smell to me.