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On the converse, you don't get to say the words "global warming" to handwave away human wants and desires. Especially when there are alternative solutions that

On the converse, you don't get to say the words "global warming" to handwave away human wants and desires. Especially when there are alternative solutions that allow car users to keep doing their thing, while also completely mitigating global warming concerns. Carbon footprints can be offset. It just needs to be done honestly. Specifically, an "honest offset" is an offset that has already occurred prior to purchase of the offset, and prior to the production of the carbon being offset. If vehicular use was required to be honestly offset, your global warming concerns completely evaporate. It really is that simple. The one downside is that you don't get the emotional satisfaction of "sticking it" to car users. If your sincere and sole goal is to fight global warming, you have to remember that most people simply do not care. If your proposed solution is to take comfortable things away from people that want those comfortable things, you are simply going to lose.

themacguffinman 4y ago
There's nothing really fundamental about humans wanting cars. In European cities with a long history of public transit, people like public transit. In American cities where cars have been king for a long time and have almost never been pressured to build good public transit, people like cars. Public transit can be comfortable. If vehicular use was required to be honestly offset, the comfortable thing that is the modern car and suburban sprawl would no longer be affordable. I don't doubt that most people don't care, it's why we're in this mess in the first place. It's also why humanity is on track to lose a lot to the damage from climate change. I find myself wondering whether I care either, I appreciate the reminder that I'm simply going to lose even if I do.
- mrshadowgoose 4y ago
  > There's nothing really fundamental about humans wanting cars. This was never claimed, and is irrelevant anyway. Fundamental or not, a large segment of Western society wants to use cars. Quibbling over whether or not this behavior is learned, intrinsic, or a mix does not help anyone on timescales that matter. Accept this reality and move on. > Public transit can be comfortable. For you maybe. Not everyone is you. I've experienced public transit in a variety of European cities known for their excellent transit systems. I simply am not comfortable on public transit, as I hate not having personal space. > If vehicular use was required to be honestly offset, the comfortable thing that is the modern car and suburban sprawl would no longer be affordable. This isn't true, but let's pretend it is. Towards your goal of mitigating global warming through reducing car usage, wouldn't this be a better approach than directly prohibiting car usage? People are easily misled by layers of indirection. Market forces pushing people away from "unaffordable" car usage is more palatable than "fuck your way of life, you now have to ride a bus or three". > I find myself wondering whether I care either, I appreciate the reminder that I'm simply going to lose even if I do. It's a tough pill to swallow, but you can choose to work with the people you don't like and advocate for solutions that are amenable to them as well. Hostility to their way of life will not get you very far. There is enough solar energy reaching our planet to power our entire civilization at the energy usage of a typical American, and to start unwinding our past century of carbon emission. Most people would simply be apathetic about working towards such a goal. Try to take away their comforts, and most will actively work against you.
  - 8note 4y ago
    Overall, people want to take what's the fastest to get where they're going. The US and Canada have built cities in a way where only driving is fast, therefore people want to drive.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

themacguffinman 4y ago

There's nothing really fundamental about humans wanting cars. In European cities with a long history of public transit, people like public transit. In American cities where cars have been king for a long time and have almost never been pressured to build good public transit, people like cars. Public transit can be comfortable. If vehicular use was required to be honestly offset, the comfortable thing that is the modern car and suburban sprawl would no longer be affordable. I don't doubt that most people don't care, it's why we're in this mess in the first place. It's also why humanity is on track to lose a lot to the damage from climate change. I find myself wondering whether I care either, I appreciate the reminder that I'm simply going to lose even if I do.

mrshadowgoose 4y ago
> There's nothing really fundamental about humans wanting cars. This was never claimed, and is irrelevant anyway. Fundamental or not, a large segment of Western society wants to use cars. Quibbling over whether or not this behavior is learned, intrinsic, or a mix does not help anyone on timescales that matter. Accept this reality and move on. > Public transit can be comfortable. For you maybe. Not everyone is you. I've experienced public transit in a variety of European cities known for their excellent transit systems. I simply am not comfortable on public transit, as I hate not having personal space. > If vehicular use was required to be honestly offset, the comfortable thing that is the modern car and suburban sprawl would no longer be affordable. This isn't true, but let's pretend it is. Towards your goal of mitigating global warming through reducing car usage, wouldn't this be a better approach than directly prohibiting car usage? People are easily misled by layers of indirection. Market forces pushing people away from "unaffordable" car usage is more palatable than "fuck your way of life, you now have to ride a bus or three". > I find myself wondering whether I care either, I appreciate the reminder that I'm simply going to lose even if I do. It's a tough pill to swallow, but you can choose to work with the people you don't like and advocate for solutions that are amenable to them as well. Hostility to their way of life will not get you very far. There is enough solar energy reaching our planet to power our entire civilization at the energy usage of a typical American, and to start unwinding our past century of carbon emission. Most people would simply be apathetic about working towards such a goal. Try to take away their comforts, and most will actively work against you.
- 8note 4y ago
  Overall, people want to take what's the fastest to get where they're going. The US and Canada have built cities in a way where only driving is fast, therefore people want to drive.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]