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> since they mostly have no new learners who aren't into PL history. They do have have new learners, that was my whole point. Whether they learn out of histori

> since they mostly have no new learners who aren't into PL history. They do have have new learners, that was my whole point. Whether they learn out of historical interest, to become better programmer in general, for a job, for research, or because they need it for a specific project does not matter. (And yes all those reasons apply.) Take a look at companies using APL: https://github.com/interregna/arraylanguage-companies https://github.com/interregna/arraylanguage-companies Or look how many people use it to solve Advent of Code. As for learning them as a first language, if we applied that criteria then most programming languages would be born absolutely dead and stay there. I don't think anyone ever learned Elm or Purescript as their first language, are they dead? I really don't get why people make such weird claims, declaring healthy and obviously alive communities to be dead. Again, things don't need to popular to be alive.

int_19h 4y ago
There's a difference between learning a language as part of history, and actually being proficient at it. I know ALGOL 60 well enough (having tried to implement it), but I wouldn't consider myself a "native speaker" of it.
__jem 4y ago
I mean, I'm pretty sure most of those companies would view APL as a liability, just like companies that still use COBOL. The question really is about whether new, significant projects are being started in these language. People choose weird, novel, old, and esoteric languages for Advent of Code because it's fun and a way to stand out from the pack, or practice languages that might not ever get used otherwise. It's not evidence of a healthy community. And yeah, I mean Elm and Purescript might not be "dead", but the fact that they are niche, largely non-general-purpose languages doesn't really mean that they are "healthy" either. I'd be willing to take a bet that both of these languages are effectively dead in 10 years.

int_19h 4y ago

There's a difference between learning a language as part of history, and actually being proficient at it. I know ALGOL 60 well enough (having tried to implement it), but I wouldn't consider myself a "native speaker" of it.

__jem 4y ago

I mean, I'm pretty sure most of those companies would view APL as a liability, just like companies that still use COBOL. The question really is about whether new, significant projects are being started in these language. People choose weird, novel, old, and esoteric languages for Advent of Code because it's fun and a way to stand out from the pack, or practice languages that might not ever get used otherwise. It's not evidence of a healthy community. And yeah, I mean Elm and Purescript might not be "dead", but the fact that they are niche, largely non-general-purpose languages doesn't really mean that they are "healthy" either. I'd be willing to take a bet that both of these languages are effectively dead in 10 years.