5 ms·

> "The agency is reconsidering its relationship with the contractor Accenture on this project, according to a person familiar." Any time I start to feel that I

by dossy 4y ago

> "The agency is reconsidering its relationship with the contractor Accenture on this project, according to a person familiar." Any time I start to feel that Impostor Syndrome creeping in, I need to remind myself that there's someone who's working at Accenture probably earning 2x or 3x what I am, who gets to fuck up big not once but _twice_ doing the same wrong thing.

ipsum2 4y ago
Doesn't Accenture offshore a lot of its work to India and other third-world countries? So the Accenture engineer probably gets paid a lot less than you. Edit: According to Wikipedia, yes: > In 2015, the company had about 150,000 employees in India,[31] 48,000 in the US,[32] and 50,000 in the Philippines.[33] Edit2: s/outsource/offshore, thanks. What I intended was: companies hire Accenture to outsource their development work to third-world countries.
- eatYourFood 4y ago
- birdymcbird 4y ago
  And is far less qualified too. I’ve crossed paths with these “consulting” types twice in my career. I don’t mean to generalize, but these so called “engineers” didn’t understand source control or versioning, didn’t understand basic programming concepts, and lacked any sort of communication skills. It seemed like you were working with someone who watched a couple YouTube videos (and no more than a couple videos) on some framework, with no former programming, design, or critical thinking skills, and they were now given a job title.
- runako 4y ago
  > > In 2015, the company had about 150,000 employees in India,[31] 48,000 in the US,[32] and 50,000 in the Philippines.[33] Pedantic: Accenture assigning work to their employees in India or the Philippines is not "outsourcing." The work was outsourced when it was handed off from the client paying the bills to Accenture, regardless of where the Accenture employees are located. By definition, Accenture cannot outsource work to their own employees. "Offshoring" is what Accenture does by having the work done by their employees in lower-cost regions.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    The reality is that South Asian subsidiaries have a revolving door of employees and are functionally equivalent to the contract labor firms. Their work output isn't any better.
  - ipsum2 4y ago
    Thanks for the correction.
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  > So the Accenture engineer probably gets paid a lot less than you. Given that roughly 1/3 of Accenture employees are in the US, is there any evidence for you to believe that this was someone outside the US?
  - slt2021 4y ago
    even in the US accenture's IT is not known for high wages. The only reason people stay there is being enslaved by US work visa like L-1, which allows Accenture to pay below market wage and keep employees on a short leash. You won't be able to find a single american software engineer in Accenture, because of work conditions and wages, all engineers are foreigners on visas. The only americans there are salesmen and admin staff.
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      > You won't be able to find a single american software engineer in Accenture, because of work conditions and wages, all engineers are foreigners on visas. That is false. You do know that legally Accenture has to go above market wages in that locale for H1B workers?
  - hkxer 4y ago
    Using your own stat, it is objectively probable (66% chance) that this was someone outside the US.
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      That is not my stat. It was provided by the OP. 1. How much of that split is between engineers and non engineers? 2. Outside the US can also imply other high cost regions like London. All I am asking is evidence this was a low paid non-US engineer that caused this not assumptions rooted in bigotry.
- giantg2 4y ago
  One caveat to your logic... some sensitive pieces of financial information cannot be offshore. We've had to use onshore contractors because regulations wouldn't allow us to use offshore for some of our sensitive financial data in the system, and I think it also covered SSNs. Although I would still guess that for reasons other than being offshore, they are earning market or less (or overworked to reduce any higher comp to lower effective hourly rates).
- usosmat 4y ago
  No, government contractors do not staff foreign nationals to US projects. US contractor labor rates are typically below market, and typically auditable as GSA labor rates (T&M). It’s possible there was “outsourcing” to some lower-income area in the US. Most large firms setup large dev factories in the Midwest/south-Midwest.
- protastus 4y ago
  Accenture relies on a revolving door of young, cheap, inexperienced labor. A developer in the U.S. has far better employment options.
- theCrowing 4y ago
  In the EU they did near-shoring to Ukraine... it's a shit show.
throwawaysleep 4y ago
They are like IBM. They can fail at everything forever and still get work.
jermaustin1 4y ago
Everyone I've met at accenture actually was paid below market, and usually billed at 5x their cost, or more.
ZephyrBlu 4y ago
You can check how much they're earning: https://www.levels.fyi/companies/accenture/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/accenture/salaries/software...
_ea1k 4y ago
To be fair, they probably have hours of meetings telling them about the importance of compliance and the dozens of onerous security related administrative burdens that go with it. It can be hard to do the real important security stuff when burdened by the administrative security and audit requirements requisite with government work. A lot of smart people leave in frustration.

by dossy 4y ago

ipsum2 4y ago

Doesn't Accenture offshore a lot of its work to India and other third-world countries? So the Accenture engineer probably gets paid a lot less than you. Edit: According to Wikipedia, yes: > In 2015, the company had about 150,000 employees in India,[31] 48,000 in the US,[32] and 50,000 in the Philippines.[33] Edit2: s/outsource/offshore, thanks. What I intended was: companies hire Accenture to outsource their development work to third-world countries.

eatYourFood 4y ago
birdymcbird 4y ago
And is far less qualified too. I’ve crossed paths with these “consulting” types twice in my career. I don’t mean to generalize, but these so called “engineers” didn’t understand source control or versioning, didn’t understand basic programming concepts, and lacked any sort of communication skills. It seemed like you were working with someone who watched a couple YouTube videos (and no more than a couple videos) on some framework, with no former programming, design, or critical thinking skills, and they were now given a job title.
runako 4y ago
> > In 2015, the company had about 150,000 employees in India,[31] 48,000 in the US,[32] and 50,000 in the Philippines.[33] Pedantic: Accenture assigning work to their employees in India or the Philippines is not "outsourcing." The work was outsourced when it was handed off from the client paying the bills to Accenture, regardless of where the Accenture employees are located. By definition, Accenture cannot outsource work to their own employees. "Offshoring" is what Accenture does by having the work done by their employees in lower-cost regions.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  The reality is that South Asian subsidiaries have a revolving door of employees and are functionally equivalent to the contract labor firms. Their work output isn't any better.
- ipsum2 4y ago
  Thanks for the correction.
cscurmudgeon 4y ago
> So the Accenture engineer probably gets paid a lot less than you. Given that roughly 1/3 of Accenture employees are in the US, is there any evidence for you to believe that this was someone outside the US?
- slt2021 4y ago
  even in the US accenture's IT is not known for high wages. The only reason people stay there is being enslaved by US work visa like L-1, which allows Accenture to pay below market wage and keep employees on a short leash. You won't be able to find a single american software engineer in Accenture, because of work conditions and wages, all engineers are foreigners on visas. The only americans there are salesmen and admin staff.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    > You won't be able to find a single american software engineer in Accenture, because of work conditions and wages, all engineers are foreigners on visas. That is false. You do know that legally Accenture has to go above market wages in that locale for H1B workers?
- hkxer 4y ago
  Using your own stat, it is objectively probable (66% chance) that this was someone outside the US.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    That is not my stat. It was provided by the OP. 1. How much of that split is between engineers and non engineers? 2. Outside the US can also imply other high cost regions like London. All I am asking is evidence this was a low paid non-US engineer that caused this not assumptions rooted in bigotry.
giantg2 4y ago
One caveat to your logic... some sensitive pieces of financial information cannot be offshore. We've had to use onshore contractors because regulations wouldn't allow us to use offshore for some of our sensitive financial data in the system, and I think it also covered SSNs. Although I would still guess that for reasons other than being offshore, they are earning market or less (or overworked to reduce any higher comp to lower effective hourly rates).
usosmat 4y ago
No, government contractors do not staff foreign nationals to US projects. US contractor labor rates are typically below market, and typically auditable as GSA labor rates (T&M). It’s possible there was “outsourcing” to some lower-income area in the US. Most large firms setup large dev factories in the Midwest/south-Midwest.
protastus 4y ago
Accenture relies on a revolving door of young, cheap, inexperienced labor. A developer in the U.S. has far better employment options.
theCrowing 4y ago
In the EU they did near-shoring to Ukraine... it's a shit show.

throwawaysleep 4y ago

They are like IBM. They can fail at everything forever and still get work.

jermaustin1 4y ago

Everyone I've met at accenture actually was paid below market, and usually billed at 5x their cost, or more.

ZephyrBlu 4y ago

You can check how much they're earning: https://www.levels.fyi/companies/accenture/salaries/software-engineer https://www.levels.fyi/companies/accenture/salaries/software...

_ea1k 4y ago

To be fair, they probably have hours of meetings telling them about the importance of compliance and the dozens of onerous security related administrative burdens that go with it. It can be hard to do the real important security stuff when burdened by the administrative security and audit requirements requisite with government work. A lot of smart people leave in frustration.