5 ms·

Well said, good analogy. There’s the immediate issues of the policy. But there’s the bigger issue of the thought process that led to the policy. One of Elons c

by waprin 4y ago

Well said, good analogy. There’s the immediate issues of the policy. But there’s the bigger issue of the thought process that led to the policy. One of Elons central criticism of old Twitter management was unfair content moderation policy. And almost immediately he enacts a far worse content policy than anything old management did, in a brazen display of hypocrisy. Even if he reverses course on this one issue, he’s demonstrated that any previous advocacy for free speech was completely disingenuous. He wants to run Twitter like he’s the dictator of a banana republic. And any time you spend on the platform strengthens his ability to do so. It was disturbing and confusing watching people like pg and Lex Fridman seemingly throw their apparent principles to the wind tolerating this type of behavior. I do sympathize there was some ambiguity about Elons plans for Twitter before this last week but with the banning of journalists and the banning of links to Mastodon, that ambiguity has been removed. I’m relieved pg took a stand here but like you I wish it was a much stronger one.

jacquesm 4y ago
If enough high profile people took a stronger stance that might just be enough to make Musk see the light. I'm not going to hold my breath for that though.
- andrei_says_ 4y ago
  What “light” would he see? That censoring whatever and whomever he wants on a whim is not the same as guaranteeing a platform without censorship? And he will somehow change his personality and thinking and put the integrity of the platform above his own small thinking limited to self interest? I really don’t see it. His reputation of an unstable, vindictive, insecure person with the power to annihilate any voice he dislikes and the track record of doing so is precise. How does one climb back from that kind of chasm and establish public trust? Twitter used to have certain policies. Now seemingly replaced to “whatever Elon likes, today”. This is 100% toxic, I stand destruction of trust.
- andrei_says_ 4y ago
  What “light” would he see? That censoring whatever and whomever he wants on a whim is not the same as guaranteeing a platform without censorship? And he will somehow change his personality and thinking and put the integrity of the platform above his own small thinking limited to self interest? I really don’t see it. His reputation of an unstable, vindictive, insecure person with the power to annihilate any voice he dislikes and the track record of doing so is precise. How does one climb back from that kind of chasm and establish public trust? Twitter used to have certain policies. Now seemingly replaced by “whatever Elon likes, today”. This is 100% toxic, I stand destruction of trust.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    That he can't do this and drop it.
    - andrei_says_ 4y ago
      He doesn’t know he can’t do it. In his distorted view of reality, he’s doing it perfectly well. I’m addressing his inability to perceive an alternative.
threatofrain 4y ago
Elon Musk's social media policy is now so sensitive that repeatedly linking to other platforms will get you banned. This is coming from the guy who thinks it's fair play to repeatedly call a rescue worker a pedophile -- of all things that shouldn't be considered fair play on or off social media.
- samstave 4y ago
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    If he knew he would definitely make it public so we can stop with that line of nonsense.
    - smnrchrds 4y ago
      I vaguely remember hearing he hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on the guy to ruin his life but there was no dirt to be dug up. But maybe I am misremembering things.
      - nier 4y ago
        Then there would be at least two people misremembering. He wanted to navigate the tight system of a water filled cave with a submarine and felt insulted that his idea was non-sense. The rescue operation involved divers holding their oxygen tanks in front of them to squeeze through holes.
      - gyc 4y ago
        He paid some ex-con $50k to dig up dirt on the guy.
    - mynameisash 4y ago
      As I recall, when it went to trial, Musk's defense was basically, "I wasn't serious about him being a pedophile. This kind of trolling is what happens on the Internet." If he actually had any dirt on the guy, his defense wouldn't be, "Don't take my claim seriously," but rather, "Here's the evidence to back up my claim."
theGnuMe 4y ago
Stand up for your principles and reason from them.
ajmurmann 4y ago
I think even your critical statement gives Elon too much credit. I think he might genuinely think he is doing good, but is just completely out of his depth and is at the same time convinced that he will succeed in improving it. Any thread by Yishsn has more insight to offer on content moderation than Musk is exhibiting and could have easily predicted the failed he makes. Mental issues or his (warranted) arrogance from his incredible past success are clouding his judgment. He also has clearly a lot of penned up culture war anger and might not be aware of that bias either. His behavior is just too erratic to seem like any kind of evil plan. After all he tried to get out of buying Twitter fort months.
- sroussey 4y ago
  PG’s account is now suspended by Twitter. The ironic thing is that one of his latest posts was about dumb people and identity politics. The whole group of tech luminaries turned political whiners just goes to show that it’s time for a new generation and they should not bend the knee for the last one but forge their own way.
  - d3vmax 4y ago
    I agree. The current crop is too anti-democratic.
noncoml 4y ago
pg calling him a smart guy is quite disappointing. The guy is happy to consume and repeat QAnon propaganda(E.g. Pelosi’s husband). Is happy to lie(journalists who didn’t fix him got banned). Takes emotional decisions to only reverse them hours later. Lacks any logical thinking, keeps gaslighting and cannot keep a consistent line(he is a free speech absolutist who believes hate speech and call to insurrection is ok but not doxxing) Has no morals and uses anything under his power to achieve his goals(banning external links to social media)
- jacquesm 4y ago
  It's a pretty technical argument but being an asshole does not necessarily mean you aren't smart.
  - hospadar 4y ago
    But buying twitter for billions more than it's worth and driving it into the ground _might_ mean that you aren't smart
  - noncoml 4y ago
    I think my arguments above demonstrate that he is not as smart as people portray him.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Definitely a point for the prosecution. The question is: was Musk in the past as smart as he is today or is that changing. This could point to either mental health issues or drug usage or some other factor. But this is becoming farcical.
      - DonHopkins 4y ago
        >This could point to either mental health issues or drug usage or some other factor. My money's on inclusive or.
- 4y ago
mccorrinall 4y ago
> banning of links to Mastodon I’d like to point out that this is what everyone says is happening, but actually that’s not what’s happening. Twitter allows linking to other social networks as long as that’s not the only thing you do. Twitter is suspending accounts which were made sorely for linking to another network. (The mastodon account was only used for promoting mastodon’s alternative social network). Here is a thread by twitter which explains the policy: https://twitter.com/twittersupport/status/1604531265419591681 https://twitter.com/twittersupport/status/160453126541959168... This FUD is almost on crypto twitter levels, and this is very behavior is very unusual for HN. (I don’t mean you specifically, a lot of people and even major news outlets got this wrong)
- profmonocle 4y ago
  If you try to post a link to a mastodon profile, it will fail. Old links will bring up a "this site may be harmful" interstitial. Most large instances seem affected.
  - mccorrinall 4y ago
    I only tested insta, which worked fine for me. Also, it looks like you can trash my post above, Graham got suspended. I really did not expect this.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      I think neither did Paul. But if he did he probably at least has a backup of his stuff.
d3vmax 4y ago
I un-sub'd from PG, Lex, Musk etc. They are all shades of Peter Theil and Anti-democratic when it comes to them / or their product.

by waprin 4y ago

jacquesm 4y ago

If enough high profile people took a stronger stance that might just be enough to make Musk see the light. I'm not going to hold my breath for that though.

andrei_says_ 4y ago
What “light” would he see? That censoring whatever and whomever he wants on a whim is not the same as guaranteeing a platform without censorship? And he will somehow change his personality and thinking and put the integrity of the platform above his own small thinking limited to self interest? I really don’t see it. His reputation of an unstable, vindictive, insecure person with the power to annihilate any voice he dislikes and the track record of doing so is precise. How does one climb back from that kind of chasm and establish public trust? Twitter used to have certain policies. Now seemingly replaced to “whatever Elon likes, today”. This is 100% toxic, I stand destruction of trust.
andrei_says_ 4y ago
What “light” would he see? That censoring whatever and whomever he wants on a whim is not the same as guaranteeing a platform without censorship? And he will somehow change his personality and thinking and put the integrity of the platform above his own small thinking limited to self interest? I really don’t see it. His reputation of an unstable, vindictive, insecure person with the power to annihilate any voice he dislikes and the track record of doing so is precise. How does one climb back from that kind of chasm and establish public trust? Twitter used to have certain policies. Now seemingly replaced by “whatever Elon likes, today”. This is 100% toxic, I stand destruction of trust.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  That he can't do this and drop it.
  - andrei_says_ 4y ago
    He doesn’t know he can’t do it. In his distorted view of reality, he’s doing it perfectly well. I’m addressing his inability to perceive an alternative.

threatofrain 4y ago

Elon Musk's social media policy is now so sensitive that repeatedly linking to other platforms will get you banned. This is coming from the guy who thinks it's fair play to repeatedly call a rescue worker a pedophile -- of all things that shouldn't be considered fair play on or off social media.

samstave 4y ago
- jacquesm 4y ago
  If he knew he would definitely make it public so we can stop with that line of nonsense.
  - smnrchrds 4y ago
    I vaguely remember hearing he hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on the guy to ruin his life but there was no dirt to be dug up. But maybe I am misremembering things.
    - nier 4y ago
      Then there would be at least two people misremembering. He wanted to navigate the tight system of a water filled cave with a submarine and felt insulted that his idea was non-sense. The rescue operation involved divers holding their oxygen tanks in front of them to squeeze through holes.
    - gyc 4y ago
      He paid some ex-con $50k to dig up dirt on the guy.
  - mynameisash 4y ago
    As I recall, when it went to trial, Musk's defense was basically, "I wasn't serious about him being a pedophile. This kind of trolling is what happens on the Internet." If he actually had any dirt on the guy, his defense wouldn't be, "Don't take my claim seriously," but rather, "Here's the evidence to back up my claim."

theGnuMe 4y ago

Stand up for your principles and reason from them.

ajmurmann 4y ago

I think even your critical statement gives Elon too much credit. I think he might genuinely think he is doing good, but is just completely out of his depth and is at the same time convinced that he will succeed in improving it. Any thread by Yishsn has more insight to offer on content moderation than Musk is exhibiting and could have easily predicted the failed he makes. Mental issues or his (warranted) arrogance from his incredible past success are clouding his judgment. He also has clearly a lot of penned up culture war anger and might not be aware of that bias either. His behavior is just too erratic to seem like any kind of evil plan. After all he tried to get out of buying Twitter fort months.

sroussey 4y ago
PG’s account is now suspended by Twitter. The ironic thing is that one of his latest posts was about dumb people and identity politics. The whole group of tech luminaries turned political whiners just goes to show that it’s time for a new generation and they should not bend the knee for the last one but forge their own way.
- d3vmax 4y ago
  I agree. The current crop is too anti-democratic.

noncoml 4y ago

pg calling him a smart guy is quite disappointing. The guy is happy to consume and repeat QAnon propaganda(E.g. Pelosi’s husband). Is happy to lie(journalists who didn’t fix him got banned). Takes emotional decisions to only reverse them hours later. Lacks any logical thinking, keeps gaslighting and cannot keep a consistent line(he is a free speech absolutist who believes hate speech and call to insurrection is ok but not doxxing) Has no morals and uses anything under his power to achieve his goals(banning external links to social media)

jacquesm 4y ago
It's a pretty technical argument but being an asshole does not necessarily mean you aren't smart.
- hospadar 4y ago
  But buying twitter for billions more than it's worth and driving it into the ground _might_ mean that you aren't smart
- noncoml 4y ago
  I think my arguments above demonstrate that he is not as smart as people portray him.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Definitely a point for the prosecution. The question is: was Musk in the past as smart as he is today or is that changing. This could point to either mental health issues or drug usage or some other factor. But this is becoming farcical.
    - DonHopkins 4y ago
      >This could point to either mental health issues or drug usage or some other factor. My money's on inclusive or.
4y ago

mccorrinall 4y ago

> banning of links to Mastodon I’d like to point out that this is what everyone says is happening, but actually that’s not what’s happening. Twitter allows linking to other social networks as long as that’s not the only thing you do. Twitter is suspending accounts which were made sorely for linking to another network. (The mastodon account was only used for promoting mastodon’s alternative social network). Here is a thread by twitter which explains the policy: https://twitter.com/twittersupport/status/1604531265419591681 https://twitter.com/twittersupport/status/160453126541959168... This FUD is almost on crypto twitter levels, and this is very behavior is very unusual for HN. (I don’t mean you specifically, a lot of people and even major news outlets got this wrong)

profmonocle 4y ago
If you try to post a link to a mastodon profile, it will fail. Old links will bring up a "this site may be harmful" interstitial. Most large instances seem affected.
- mccorrinall 4y ago
  I only tested insta, which worked fine for me. Also, it looks like you can trash my post above, Graham got suspended. I really did not expect this.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    I think neither did Paul. But if he did he probably at least has a backup of his stuff.

d3vmax 4y ago

I un-sub'd from PG, Lex, Musk etc. They are all shades of Peter Theil and Anti-democratic when it comes to them / or their product.