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I have a mild interest in obscure languages. Pascal is almost dead but still there is Delphi, FreePascal/Lazarus and Oxygen. They are all being actively devel

I have a mild interest in obscure languages. Pascal is almost dead but still there is Delphi, FreePascal/Lazarus and Oxygen. They are all being actively developed. I just wish Embarcadero would stop charging an insane amount for Delphi. Basic is even more nearly dead. There are still a few interesting things left like: https://www.purebasic.com/ https://www.purebasic.com/ Up until a few years ago at least, and I still think it is the case Epic (https://www.epic.com/ https://www.epic.com/) had a huge amount of their codebase in Visual Basic classic.

shakow 4y ago
> Basic is even more nearly dead I would not say so. The BASIC used in the Office pack is the last child of the MS-BASIC/GWBASIC/QBASIC/QuickBasic/VisualBasic lineage, is still (unfortunately?) very much alive, and probably powering a much bigger part of the modern world than we should be comfortable with.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  VBA isn't that bad a language. Compiles to native and runs with impressive speed. Lots of built in libraries for numeric programming among other things and fairly easy to call into any dll. The issue is it's accessibility. Like JS and Python people blame the language for what happens when you hand people with no software training and an interest only in solving their immediate problem, a computer language they are productive in. And how can we call basic dead when VB.net is still in the tiobe top 10?
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  I was also exposed to a variant of BASIC in high school through my scientific calculator. I wonder if it is still the case ?
  - shakow 4y ago
    If you are thinking of TI calculators, it's very much still the case; at least until the nspire range completely takes over the older models.
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      Casio actually, but I am not surprised that TI would have done the same.
Tozen 4y ago
The problem with claims of Pascal being dead or almost dead, is there are competing interests and evangelists of rival languages who wish it to be dead, and Pascal/Object Pascal simply won't do them the favor. As partially shown by Object Pascal being consistently ranked around #15 (for many years) on the TIOBE index (sometimes a bit higher and sometimes a bit lower). To say Pascal/Object Pascal is almost dead, is to ignore how much more used and taught the language is over known and hyped languages in the media such as Go, Rust, Swift, Julia, etc... Nobody says that those languages are "almost dead", yet Pascal/Object Pascal is as or more used than any of them. One aspect of the confusion over if Pascal is dead or not, has to do with naming and marketing. Delphi is an IDE/compiler of the Object Pascal language. People can of heard the name Delphi, and know its still very alive, but have no idea or don't realize the language is Object Pascal. In the same context, this goes for Oxygene, and to a lesser degree, for Free Pascal/Lazarus, PascalABC, etc... People aren't aware of how they connect as dialects of Pascal/Object Pascal, and get confused by the names and marketing.
- zeroc8 4y ago
  Well, the real problem is that people are not writing native Windows applications anymore, that's what Delphi was good at. And Embarcadero also priced themselves out of the market, they should have had a long hard look at Jetbrains and how those guys thrived in an overcrowded market.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    They certainly are, because not everything can be a Web app, and thakfully Electron is still a niche thing. Borland priced themselves out of the market when they trasitioned into Emprise, now that is what is left as customers, the people that pay for tooling, and sadly it is hard to go back in time for hobby prices. See Qt as well. I have the feeling JetBrains might fall into the same trap, as I see them trying to make a Delphi out of Kotlin.
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
The "Why Pascal is not my favourite language" essay mentioned used to get cited frequently, but a lot of its criticisms are either irrelevant or just plain incorrect with respect to Delphi and co. e.g. "There is no 'break' statement" - In Delphi, there is. "There is no 'return' statement" - yes, there is. It became a recurring circular argument at that point, with rounds of "This essay is just wrong now." "that just shows that Delphi is not Pascal, the essay is correct for _Pascal_ as standardised"; "then why does this essay keep being raised as if it's still relevant to Delphi, when it is not?" "That's a misinterpretation", "yes, one that newcomers make constantly. It's harmful." The article is probably accurate that this essay was influential. "Was it correctly so?" is a different issue.

shakow 4y ago

> Basic is even more nearly dead I would not say so. The BASIC used in the Office pack is the last child of the MS-BASIC/GWBASIC/QBASIC/QuickBasic/VisualBasic lineage, is still (unfortunately?) very much alive, and probably powering a much bigger part of the modern world than we should be comfortable with.

galangalalgol 4y ago
VBA isn't that bad a language. Compiles to native and runs with impressive speed. Lots of built in libraries for numeric programming among other things and fairly easy to call into any dll. The issue is it's accessibility. Like JS and Python people blame the language for what happens when you hand people with no software training and an interest only in solving their immediate problem, a computer language they are productive in. And how can we call basic dead when VB.net is still in the tiobe top 10?
BlueTemplar 4y ago
I was also exposed to a variant of BASIC in high school through my scientific calculator. I wonder if it is still the case ?
- shakow 4y ago
  If you are thinking of TI calculators, it's very much still the case; at least until the nspire range completely takes over the older models.
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    Casio actually, but I am not surprised that TI would have done the same.

Tozen 4y ago

The problem with claims of Pascal being dead or almost dead, is there are competing interests and evangelists of rival languages who wish it to be dead, and Pascal/Object Pascal simply won't do them the favor. As partially shown by Object Pascal being consistently ranked around #15 (for many years) on the TIOBE index (sometimes a bit higher and sometimes a bit lower). To say Pascal/Object Pascal is almost dead, is to ignore how much more used and taught the language is over known and hyped languages in the media such as Go, Rust, Swift, Julia, etc... Nobody says that those languages are "almost dead", yet Pascal/Object Pascal is as or more used than any of them. One aspect of the confusion over if Pascal is dead or not, has to do with naming and marketing. Delphi is an IDE/compiler of the Object Pascal language. People can of heard the name Delphi, and know its still very alive, but have no idea or don't realize the language is Object Pascal. In the same context, this goes for Oxygene, and to a lesser degree, for Free Pascal/Lazarus, PascalABC, etc... People aren't aware of how they connect as dialects of Pascal/Object Pascal, and get confused by the names and marketing.

zeroc8 4y ago
Well, the real problem is that people are not writing native Windows applications anymore, that's what Delphi was good at. And Embarcadero also priced themselves out of the market, they should have had a long hard look at Jetbrains and how those guys thrived in an overcrowded market.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  They certainly are, because not everything can be a Web app, and thakfully Electron is still a niche thing. Borland priced themselves out of the market when they trasitioned into Emprise, now that is what is left as customers, the people that pay for tooling, and sadly it is hard to go back in time for hobby prices. See Qt as well. I have the feeling JetBrains might fall into the same trap, as I see them trying to make a Delphi out of Kotlin.

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago

The "Why Pascal is not my favourite language" essay mentioned used to get cited frequently, but a lot of its criticisms are either irrelevant or just plain incorrect with respect to Delphi and co. e.g. "There is no 'break' statement" - In Delphi, there is. "There is no 'return' statement" - yes, there is. It became a recurring circular argument at that point, with rounds of "This essay is just wrong now." "that just shows that Delphi is not Pascal, the essay is correct for _Pascal_ as standardised"; "then why does this essay keep being raised as if it's still relevant to Delphi, when it is not?" "That's a misinterpretation", "yes, one that newcomers make constantly. It's harmful." The article is probably accurate that this essay was influential. "Was it correctly so?" is a different issue.