7 ms·

I think part of the reason this is a big deal is that it breaks HBO’s brand. They have always been seen as a prestige channel that had a catalog of original pro

I think part of the reason this is a big deal is that it breaks HBO’s brand. They have always been seen as a prestige channel that had a catalog of original programming you’d never see anywhere else. Westworld appeared to be part of this original programming portfolio and something that would live on as part of what it meant to be subscribed to HBO, like the Sopranos. Having the series disappear is like finding out that Disney is jettisoning Toy Story.

labrador 4y ago
Yes but Westworld started out with a brilliant first season and went downhill from there until the 4th season was nearly unwatchable. The Sopranos was good right up until the end, which is not how I would have ended it. HBO might as well sell Westworld to a less premium outlet.
- maxfurman 4y ago
  Many (most) HBO shows do not live up to The Sopranos, and FWIW I completely agree with your assessment of Westworld, but I also agree with GP - part of the pitch of HBOGO, and then Max, is access to the whole back catalog of HBO. The Sopranos, yes, but also John From Cincinnati and a host of other ambitious also-rans. HBO isn't selling off Westworld because it's bad, they're selling it off because their penny pinching CEO doesn't understand what made HBO worth the subscription in the first place.
  - labrador 4y ago
    He has the numbers though. He can see if hardly anyone is watching Westworld on HBO and calculate he could make more money by selling it and then using that money to create something people do want to watch. As for harming the brand, I know what HBO used to be but don't know if it's that anymore. I don't know anything about calculating a brand image or how much it's worth, so I couldn't say in a landscape of thousands of competing outlets
    - magicalist 4y ago
      > He has the numbers though. He thinks he has the numbers. He could also raise the subscription price and make more money that way too, if most people stick around. Do that enough and they won't, though.
      - emodendroket 4y ago
        Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression from the sudden change of fortune of all these movie and television streaming services is, maybe making really good content doesn't really make the business model work. Maybe it only really works if you're churning out low-budget, mindless trash reality TV. Though it is less clear if that was understood at front and this was a way of growing the subscriber base or if there was more optimism that was warranted.
        brewdad 4y ago
        Ok. But why ditch the shows you've already paid to produce? Maybe the future cash flows are greater by taking the cash today but that's a hell of a wager to place on the future. My annual sub renews in 12 days. I will probably re-up for one more year but only because I can get a significant discount through my credit card. Will I, and others, re-up in for 2024? I am very uncertain.
        oneoff786 4y ago
        If you’re going to buy it this year I would expect a pretty low bar for you to buy it next year
        emodendroket 4y ago
        The answer seems to be they don’t want to pay residuals.
- haswell 4y ago
  Westworld is hardly the first show on HBO that isn't exactly stellar start to finish.
- mathieuh 4y ago
  The Sopranos is a masterpiece on all levels, if that’s going to be your yardstick there’s not going to be much left.
- locusofself 4y ago
  Was there a 4th season? I couldn't make it halfway into the 3rd season. The first season was brilliant
- rob74 4y ago
  Well yeah... the problem with Westworld was that it didn't really have an overarching plot, they just figured out what to do from season to season. Season 1 was brilliant, season 2 still good, but with some worrying misanthropic themes (like positing that human intelligence was vastly inferior to that of the androids), and then it apparently went downhill from there. I only ever watched seasons 1 and 2, but was planning on taking a look at 3 and 4, and finding out I won't be able to (legally) without forking out for the DVD box sets (which, at least in this case, still exist) makes me feel exactly like the article describes: as if someone stole a toy which I didn't play with, but was vaguely looking forward to playing with sometime in the future...
- josephd79 4y ago
  Most people didn't like season 3 because it went so far sci-fi instead of the Wild West. I thought season 3 was great and season 4 was amazing. It's weird that they are removing content like Westworld but there's a ton of trash on their platform that they could axe and no one would even know.
phpisthebest 4y ago
Disney;s business model for many years was to do just that, they would put popular titles "in the vault" only to re-release them a few years later it is proven economic model of false scarcity. Just like the McRib, McDs would never put it on the permanent menu because they sell more due to it "limited run" every year. I suspect these shows will be like that, they will be removed and readded periodically to boost subscriber numbers, probally to align with some exec needing a bonus, or if they are having a bad year and want to hide the bad news from investors
- AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
  McRib situation is a bit more complicated. McDonalds would bring back McRib when pork prices would drop and they could negotiate large purchases of pork at favorable rates.
- bombcar 4y ago
  99% of the world never noticed movies going in or out of the vault.
  - alasdair_ 4y ago
    80 million people is still a lot of people.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      True - I should probably have said 99% of their customers. I never seemed to have a difficulty finding a movie when I wanted but then again I didn’t often want to.
  - js2 4y ago
    If it is so ineffectual then why do they do it?
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Because it is effectual for the Disney-fanatics. If 99% of your customers will buy "the latest movie or whatever is on the shelf at Walmart" and 1% will buy multiple copies of something "from the vault" so they don't miss out, then the vault move is a winning play.
tptacek 4y ago
The rest of the video venues (what do we call them now that they're not channels?) caught up. HBO is still high-status, but it hasn't had any kind of singular status in years; FX, AMC, Netflix, Apple, Starz, and Amazon do just as good a job with original programming. I assume HBO has figured that out for itself, and it no longer makes sense for them to be anything less than ruthless; nothing they ever do is going to vault them back to the status they had in 2004, so why pretend?
emodendroket 4y ago
> Having the series disappear is like finding out that Disney is jettisoning Toy Story. A bit of a strange analogy since pulling stuff from shelves to create artificial scarcity has been a signature move of theirs for quite some time.
nonameiguess 4y ago
I agree that HBO's brand has been broken, but that happened independent of the decision to remove canceled titles from the streaming back catalog. It happened first with the initial purchase by AT&T when the strategy 180'd from high-quality boutique productions released in small numbers one at a time to an attempt to emulate the Netflix "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" strategy, then again with the panic reaction to the pandemic releasing all Warners films on HBO Max rather than giving any exclusive theatrical run, pissing off directors and actors, then yet again when AT&T promptly bowed out and Warners merged with Discovery and they seemed to now reverse a bunch of the original decisions, canceling both shows and planned movies left and right and resetting the entire DCEU in the process. Not even sure where to throw in the weird tendency to release all of these "limited" series they change their minds on and throw out adhoc future seasons that come out of nowhere and make no sense because the initial run generates some buzz. I'm just glad they started doing that after Chernobyl and at least didn't ruin that one. Also putting aside the confusing launch of HBO Max itself, while also keeping HBO Go and HBO as a channel available for subscription from other streaming services, and all of the bugs the app had within the first few years of release. They've been a complete shitshow for years now, obviously having no real plan that any set group of leaders consistently believes in. I'm reasonably sure having old titles becoming unavailable unless you bought a physical copy isn't a new thing anyway. What's new here is doing it to titles that were barely canceled just now, not to mention the whole Batgirl thing producing an entire movie and not even releasing it at all anywhere.

labrador 4y ago

Yes but Westworld started out with a brilliant first season and went downhill from there until the 4th season was nearly unwatchable. The Sopranos was good right up until the end, which is not how I would have ended it. HBO might as well sell Westworld to a less premium outlet.

maxfurman 4y ago
Many (most) HBO shows do not live up to The Sopranos, and FWIW I completely agree with your assessment of Westworld, but I also agree with GP - part of the pitch of HBOGO, and then Max, is access to the whole back catalog of HBO. The Sopranos, yes, but also John From Cincinnati and a host of other ambitious also-rans. HBO isn't selling off Westworld because it's bad, they're selling it off because their penny pinching CEO doesn't understand what made HBO worth the subscription in the first place.
- labrador 4y ago
  He has the numbers though. He can see if hardly anyone is watching Westworld on HBO and calculate he could make more money by selling it and then using that money to create something people do want to watch. As for harming the brand, I know what HBO used to be but don't know if it's that anymore. I don't know anything about calculating a brand image or how much it's worth, so I couldn't say in a landscape of thousands of competing outlets
  - magicalist 4y ago
    > He has the numbers though. He thinks he has the numbers. He could also raise the subscription price and make more money that way too, if most people stick around. Do that enough and they won't, though.
    - emodendroket 4y ago
      Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression from the sudden change of fortune of all these movie and television streaming services is, maybe making really good content doesn't really make the business model work. Maybe it only really works if you're churning out low-budget, mindless trash reality TV. Though it is less clear if that was understood at front and this was a way of growing the subscriber base or if there was more optimism that was warranted.
      - brewdad 4y ago
        Ok. But why ditch the shows you've already paid to produce? Maybe the future cash flows are greater by taking the cash today but that's a hell of a wager to place on the future. My annual sub renews in 12 days. I will probably re-up for one more year but only because I can get a significant discount through my credit card. Will I, and others, re-up in for 2024? I am very uncertain.
        oneoff786 4y ago
        If you’re going to buy it this year I would expect a pretty low bar for you to buy it next year
        emodendroket 4y ago
        The answer seems to be they don’t want to pay residuals.
haswell 4y ago
Westworld is hardly the first show on HBO that isn't exactly stellar start to finish.
mathieuh 4y ago
The Sopranos is a masterpiece on all levels, if that’s going to be your yardstick there’s not going to be much left.
locusofself 4y ago
Was there a 4th season? I couldn't make it halfway into the 3rd season. The first season was brilliant
rob74 4y ago
Well yeah... the problem with Westworld was that it didn't really have an overarching plot, they just figured out what to do from season to season. Season 1 was brilliant, season 2 still good, but with some worrying misanthropic themes (like positing that human intelligence was vastly inferior to that of the androids), and then it apparently went downhill from there. I only ever watched seasons 1 and 2, but was planning on taking a look at 3 and 4, and finding out I won't be able to (legally) without forking out for the DVD box sets (which, at least in this case, still exist) makes me feel exactly like the article describes: as if someone stole a toy which I didn't play with, but was vaguely looking forward to playing with sometime in the future...
josephd79 4y ago
Most people didn't like season 3 because it went so far sci-fi instead of the Wild West. I thought season 3 was great and season 4 was amazing. It's weird that they are removing content like Westworld but there's a ton of trash on their platform that they could axe and no one would even know.

phpisthebest 4y ago

Disney;s business model for many years was to do just that, they would put popular titles "in the vault" only to re-release them a few years later it is proven economic model of false scarcity. Just like the McRib, McDs would never put it on the permanent menu because they sell more due to it "limited run" every year. I suspect these shows will be like that, they will be removed and readded periodically to boost subscriber numbers, probally to align with some exec needing a bonus, or if they are having a bad year and want to hide the bad news from investors

AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
McRib situation is a bit more complicated. McDonalds would bring back McRib when pork prices would drop and they could negotiate large purchases of pork at favorable rates.
bombcar 4y ago
99% of the world never noticed movies going in or out of the vault.
- alasdair_ 4y ago
  80 million people is still a lot of people.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    True - I should probably have said 99% of their customers. I never seemed to have a difficulty finding a movie when I wanted but then again I didn’t often want to.
- js2 4y ago
  If it is so ineffectual then why do they do it?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Because it is effectual for the Disney-fanatics. If 99% of your customers will buy "the latest movie or whatever is on the shelf at Walmart" and 1% will buy multiple copies of something "from the vault" so they don't miss out, then the vault move is a winning play.

tptacek 4y ago

The rest of the video venues (what do we call them now that they're not channels?) caught up. HBO is still high-status, but it hasn't had any kind of singular status in years; FX, AMC, Netflix, Apple, Starz, and Amazon do just as good a job with original programming. I assume HBO has figured that out for itself, and it no longer makes sense for them to be anything less than ruthless; nothing they ever do is going to vault them back to the status they had in 2004, so why pretend?

emodendroket 4y ago

> Having the series disappear is like finding out that Disney is jettisoning Toy Story. A bit of a strange analogy since pulling stuff from shelves to create artificial scarcity has been a signature move of theirs for quite some time.

nonameiguess 4y ago

I agree that HBO's brand has been broken, but that happened independent of the decision to remove canceled titles from the streaming back catalog. It happened first with the initial purchase by AT&T when the strategy 180'd from high-quality boutique productions released in small numbers one at a time to an attempt to emulate the Netflix "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" strategy, then again with the panic reaction to the pandemic releasing all Warners films on HBO Max rather than giving any exclusive theatrical run, pissing off directors and actors, then yet again when AT&T promptly bowed out and Warners merged with Discovery and they seemed to now reverse a bunch of the original decisions, canceling both shows and planned movies left and right and resetting the entire DCEU in the process. Not even sure where to throw in the weird tendency to release all of these "limited" series they change their minds on and throw out adhoc future seasons that come out of nowhere and make no sense because the initial run generates some buzz. I'm just glad they started doing that after Chernobyl and at least didn't ruin that one. Also putting aside the confusing launch of HBO Max itself, while also keeping HBO Go and HBO as a channel available for subscription from other streaming services, and all of the bugs the app had within the first few years of release. They've been a complete shitshow for years now, obviously having no real plan that any set group of leaders consistently believes in. I'm reasonably sure having old titles becoming unavailable unless you bought a physical copy isn't a new thing anyway. What's new here is doing it to titles that were barely canceled just now, not to mention the whole Batgirl thing producing an entire movie and not even releasing it at all anywhere.