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I'm going to take the minority position here (no pun intended), and say that I think these initiatives are in fact helpful and important. I recently joined an

I'm going to take the minority position here (no pun intended), and say that I think these initiatives are in fact helpful and important. I recently joined an engineering team where there's a cultural norm of not using the word "guys" to address a group. When I first heard this, I kinda rolled my eyes but got on board. It took a tremendous amount of mental effort to weed that word out of my vocabulary, but it's had a tangible effect on my mentality. It has completely reaffirmed my belief in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis--our language influences how we think. Intentionally changing the words and phrases we use is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing our behavior, and correcting both logical and social biases.

_Algernon_ 4y ago
>Intentionally changing the words and phrases we use is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing our behavior, and correcting both logical and social biases. If what you're saying is true, that also has the implication that manipulating language at a societal scale is a great way to manipulate society into thinking the way you want. Is that really what we want? To have a minority manipulate our language in order to influence our thoughts?
bentley 4y ago
> it's had a tangible effect on my mentality. What tangible effects did it have on your mentality?
- ohCh6zos 4y ago
  I'm not OP, but it spurred me to find a better job, which was pretty tangible.
- peanutcrisis 4y ago
  Makes you feel good about "doing good", without actually doing good.
adamrezich 4y ago
> It took a tremendous amount of mental effort to weed that word out of my vocabulary, but it's had a tangible effect on my mentality. It has completely reaffirmed my belief in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis--our language influences how we think. this requires elaboration because without further context it is impossible to understand what demonstrable benefits you have achieved by altering your language use thusly, aside from getting along with your team better, due to your compliance with their language-use mandate.
JetAlone 4y ago
zzo38computer 4y ago
> I'm going to take the minority position here (no pun intended), and say that I think these initiatives are in fact helpful and important. I partially agree. Some of the suggestions for changes are good in some contexts, but there are also many problems with this list, too. (There are also some things I would suggest to change to be improved even though the existing words are not "racist", but they tend to ignore such things; nevertheless, I think they can sometimes be helpful, too (e.g. I think "megagram" is better than "tonne").) > It has completely reaffirmed my belief in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis--our language influences how we think. Of course it does affect it at least partially, but it seems that the language has a greater effect on the ability to communicate than it does on the ability to think; some things you can think of but not communicate very well, due to the language being in use. > Intentionally changing the words and phrases we use is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing our behavior, and correcting both logical and social biases. It can help, if it makes it clearer and more precise. Sometimes that is the case, but sometimes not. (And, sometimes, using more words just makes it too long, rather than actually being good.) However, bias is not only due to words (although it does have an effect, especially when communicating), and using different words can ahve different bias, so it does not truly completely avoid a bias.
- yunwal 4y ago
  Initiatives like this can be a signal of change and spur a new culture if they are accompanied by action and done thoughtfully.
throwawayacc3 4y ago
"I gave in to linguistic totalitarianism. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. I have won the victory over myself. I love Big Brother."

_Algernon_ 4y ago

>Intentionally changing the words and phrases we use is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing our behavior, and correcting both logical and social biases. If what you're saying is true, that also has the implication that manipulating language at a societal scale is a great way to manipulate society into thinking the way you want. Is that really what we want? To have a minority manipulate our language in order to influence our thoughts?

bentley 4y ago

> it's had a tangible effect on my mentality. What tangible effects did it have on your mentality?

ohCh6zos 4y ago
I'm not OP, but it spurred me to find a better job, which was pretty tangible.
peanutcrisis 4y ago
Makes you feel good about "doing good", without actually doing good.

adamrezich 4y ago

> It took a tremendous amount of mental effort to weed that word out of my vocabulary, but it's had a tangible effect on my mentality. It has completely reaffirmed my belief in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis--our language influences how we think. this requires elaboration because without further context it is impossible to understand what demonstrable benefits you have achieved by altering your language use thusly, aside from getting along with your team better, due to your compliance with their language-use mandate.

JetAlone 4y ago

zzo38computer 4y ago

> I'm going to take the minority position here (no pun intended), and say that I think these initiatives are in fact helpful and important. I partially agree. Some of the suggestions for changes are good in some contexts, but there are also many problems with this list, too. (There are also some things I would suggest to change to be improved even though the existing words are not "racist", but they tend to ignore such things; nevertheless, I think they can sometimes be helpful, too (e.g. I think "megagram" is better than "tonne").) > It has completely reaffirmed my belief in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis--our language influences how we think. Of course it does affect it at least partially, but it seems that the language has a greater effect on the ability to communicate than it does on the ability to think; some things you can think of but not communicate very well, due to the language being in use. > Intentionally changing the words and phrases we use is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing our behavior, and correcting both logical and social biases. It can help, if it makes it clearer and more precise. Sometimes that is the case, but sometimes not. (And, sometimes, using more words just makes it too long, rather than actually being good.) However, bias is not only due to words (although it does have an effect, especially when communicating), and using different words can ahve different bias, so it does not truly completely avoid a bias.

yunwal 4y ago
Initiatives like this can be a signal of change and spur a new culture if they are accompanied by action and done thoughtfully.

throwawayacc3 4y ago

"I gave in to linguistic totalitarianism. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. I have won the victory over myself. I love Big Brother."