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Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America". Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for h

by jonux 4y ago

Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America". Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for heating i just simply a bad idea. Never understood how this is even remotely OK in the US. This is illegal in most of Europe. And for good reason. If it is around Celcius -40 then you would never turn off the vehicle. And a bit over that - there is always the Russian option of having a large candle below the oil tray (bad english, but you get it... under the engine) for pre heating. The more mainstream option is plugged in electric heating of coolant water. I remember from my days in the Swedish army that there was a pre heating scheme for the drivers where specific spots on trucks APC's and such should be heated by gas light. Usually it is sufficient to start the engine, clean the windows from ice, and then get going. A short engine running time without load for letting oils and fluids melt is only sane. Actually heating the cabin is nothing but wasteful.

mcspiff 4y ago
In Canada, electric block heaters for the engine are fairly common as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater . Similar concept to fire under the engine, but a bit more modern
bbbbb5 4y ago
>Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America". >Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for heating i just simply a bad idea. Never understood how this is even remotely OK in the US. This is illegal in most of Europe. And for good reason. My German BMW 7 series definitely had remote start (and an auxiliary heater too). Maybach GLS has an auxiliary heater. These are hardly uncommon features in vastly cheaper cars either. Various Webasto systems have been around for ages, often installed by OEMs.
nszceta 4y ago
> Actually heating the cabin is nothing but wasteful. Americans value comfort and they get it. Europeans want it too but they can't afford it (taxation and energy scarcity)
- Reason077 4y ago
  It's to do with safety, not economics. Remote start on a combustion vehicle presents a carbon monoxide poisoning risk. This is perhaps more significant in Europe where more people park indoors and in confined spaces. Pretty much any EV in Europe has a remote cabin heating feature. If it were about energy and economics, wouldn't that be banned also?
  - nightski 4y ago
    If you are parked indoors you don't need remote start. Our garage stays about 32F degrees even when it is -10F out. The entire point of remote start is for the case when you are parked outside, such as at work.
    - Reason077 4y ago
      Sure, but is the car actually smart enough to detect when it's indoors and block remote start? Many countries ban or restrict remote start features due to the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. In any case, not all indoor parking is climate-controlled. It's nice to be able to remotely warm (or cool, in summer) the cabin to a pleasant temperature before you arrive! 32F is still pretty chilly.
  - rosnd 4y ago
    > Pretty much any EV in Europe has a remote cabin heating feature Surely pretty much any equivalent gas car remote cabin heating too, it's a very common feature.
    - Reason077 4y ago
      > "Surely pretty much any equivalent gas car remote cabin heating too, it's a very common feature." Remote cabin heating in a gas car requires a "remote start" feature, which is illegal in many European countries - particularly Germany. This is not a common feature in Europe, except in EVs.
      - 4y ago
prottog 4y ago
> the oil tray (bad english, but you get it... under the engine) It's almost perfect English -- it's called an oil pan ;-)
foxyv 4y ago
For $30-40 you can buy a block heater. They are a very nice to have in cold weather. https://www.amazon.com/KENUOS-Thermostat-Self-Adhesive-Dipstick-Silicone/dp/B0B9GWGDPT/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=JAXQ3SI40PIP&keywords=block%2Bheater&qid=1671463585&sprefix=block%2Bheate%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-2-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExNVZZREw1VTc4Uk4wJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTE1MTkzNkdCUzA1MlU1SVcxJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3ODY5NTgzMjEyVEJVNENGWTlMJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/KENUOS-Thermostat-Self-Adhesive-Dipst...

by jonux 4y ago

mcspiff 4y ago

In Canada, electric block heaters for the engine are fairly common as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater . Similar concept to fire under the engine, but a bit more modern

bbbbb5 4y ago

>Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America". >Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for heating i just simply a bad idea. Never understood how this is even remotely OK in the US. This is illegal in most of Europe. And for good reason. My German BMW 7 series definitely had remote start (and an auxiliary heater too). Maybach GLS has an auxiliary heater. These are hardly uncommon features in vastly cheaper cars either. Various Webasto systems have been around for ages, often installed by OEMs.

nszceta 4y ago

> Actually heating the cabin is nothing but wasteful. Americans value comfort and they get it. Europeans want it too but they can't afford it (taxation and energy scarcity)

Reason077 4y ago
It's to do with safety, not economics. Remote start on a combustion vehicle presents a carbon monoxide poisoning risk. This is perhaps more significant in Europe where more people park indoors and in confined spaces. Pretty much any EV in Europe has a remote cabin heating feature. If it were about energy and economics, wouldn't that be banned also?
- nightski 4y ago
  If you are parked indoors you don't need remote start. Our garage stays about 32F degrees even when it is -10F out. The entire point of remote start is for the case when you are parked outside, such as at work.
  - Reason077 4y ago
    Sure, but is the car actually smart enough to detect when it's indoors and block remote start? Many countries ban or restrict remote start features due to the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. In any case, not all indoor parking is climate-controlled. It's nice to be able to remotely warm (or cool, in summer) the cabin to a pleasant temperature before you arrive! 32F is still pretty chilly.
- rosnd 4y ago
  > Pretty much any EV in Europe has a remote cabin heating feature Surely pretty much any equivalent gas car remote cabin heating too, it's a very common feature.
  - Reason077 4y ago
    > "Surely pretty much any equivalent gas car remote cabin heating too, it's a very common feature." Remote cabin heating in a gas car requires a "remote start" feature, which is illegal in many European countries - particularly Germany. This is not a common feature in Europe, except in EVs.
    - 4y ago

prottog 4y ago

> the oil tray (bad english, but you get it... under the engine) It's almost perfect English -- it's called an oil pan ;-)

foxyv 4y ago

For $30-40 you can buy a block heater. They are a very nice to have in cold weather. https://www.amazon.com/KENUOS-Thermostat-Self-Adhesive-Dipstick-Silicone/dp/B0B9GWGDPT/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=JAXQ3SI40PIP&keywords=block%2Bheater&qid=1671463585&sprefix=block%2Bheate%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-2-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExNVZZREw1VTc4Uk4wJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTE1MTkzNkdCUzA1MlU1SVcxJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3ODY5NTgzMjEyVEJVNENGWTlMJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/KENUOS-Thermostat-Self-Adhesive-Dipst...