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The most likely theory is that HBO (under the former ownership) signed deals on streaming residuals for these shows that make them more expensive to keep availa

The most likely theory is that HBO (under the former ownership) signed deals on streaming residuals for these shows that make them more expensive to keep available than they’re worth. They expected Westworld, for example, to do Game of Thrones-class numbers and continue to draw subscribers for years as a catalog title. It didn’t sustain that level of interest. And the new ownership doesn’t seem to believe in the value of catalog titles in the first place: I wouldn’t be surprised if The Wire and The Sopranos eventually get moved or sold elsewhere.

rightbyte 4y ago
Well I guess they need to do later seasons good in that case. Westworld season 2 was a joke. From a drama in S1 to mindless b-action in S2.
- twoodfin 4y ago
  I’d disagree that S2 is where the show went wrong. It holds up quite well on rewatch, with probably 3-4 of the best overall episodes. Ironically, I think Nolan & Joy made the same kind of mistake Dr. Ford criticizes in the premiere: They forgot why people wanted to watch Westworld. Fundamentally, the show was about the park, with all its mystery and detail. They seemed to think it was actually about the ideas around AI, consciousness & free will they wanted to explore. Those were modestly compelling, and enough to ride the momentum of the first couple seasons to some passable storytelling assisted by some great performances. But not the same show at all & the plummeting audience reflected that.
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    Ye I agree with the later. People wanted a Western with cowboys. It also had this "Greec theater thing word" were the audience, the guests, knew the story but the actors, the hosts, didn't. Concerning the former I guess that is a matter of taste. I watched it with my wife and she was extremely dissatisfied with the change of genre and pace. Lets pretend you know her. You understand why she disliked it right? She loved S1.
    - twoodfin 4y ago
      Yeah, I can imagine a version of that show that’s basically S1 but stretched out much longer. I can also imagine it being quite enjoyable, there was a lot of story space back and front to explore that they didn’t get to before things went to hell in the park. Some of the best parts of S1 were in this mode: “Ooh, Pariah… that’s new and different!” On the other hand, I think it would have required robbing S1 of the coherent, two track, beginning-middle-end story that made it as compelling as any single season of any show.
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      Dramatic irony
      - rightbyte 4y ago
        Oh ty
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    > the ideas around AI, consciousness & free will they wanted to explore I haven't seen S2, but with that description, and as an avid fan of the various incarnations of Ghost in the Shell, I want to see S2 to see how they explore those concepts.
    - listenallyall 4y ago
      Poorly.
      - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
        (echoing) D'oh!
    - kshacker 4y ago
      Don't don't just don't. I was just talking to my son about this. They started with a very superior storytelling and by the end it was only mythology, maybe some story but zero "telling". S2 is still comprehensible but it appears they just believed the wrong side of their appreciation and went hyper on that.
    - grantcas 4y ago
      It's becoming clear that with all the brain and consciousness theories out there, the proof will be in the pudding. By this I mean, can any particular theory be used to create a human adult level conscious machine. My bet is on the late Gerald Edelman's Extended Theory of Neuronal Group Selection. The lead group in robotics based on this theory is the Neurorobotics Lab at UC at Irvine. Dr. Edelman distinguished between primary consciousness, which came first in evolution, and that humans share with other conscious animals, and higher order consciousness, which came to only humans with the acquisition of language. A machine with primary consciousness will probably have to come first. What I find special about the TNGS is the Darwin series of automata created at the Neurosciences Institute by Dr. Edelman and his colleagues in the 1990's and 2000's. These machines perform in the real world, not in a restricted simulated world, and display convincing physical behavior indicative of higher psychological functions necessary for consciousness, such as perceptual categorization, memory, and learning. They are based on realistic models of the parts of the biological brain that the theory claims subserve these functions. The extended TNGS allows for the emergence of consciousness based only on further evolutionary development of the brain areas responsible for these functions, in a parsimonious way. No other research I've encountered is anywhere near as convincing. I post because on almost every video and article about the brain and consciousness that I encounter, the attitude seems to be that we still know next to nothing about how the brain and consciousness work; that there's lots of data but no unifying theory. I believe the extended TNGS is that theory. My motivation is to keep that theory in front of the public. And obviously, I consider it the route to a truly conscious machine, primary and higher-order. My advice to people who want to create a conscious machine is to seriously ground themselves in the extended TNGS and the Darwin automata first, and proceed from there, by applying to Jeff Krichmar's lab at UC Irvine, possibly. Dr. Edelman's roadmap to a conscious machine is at https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461 https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461
- dbspin 4y ago
  Couldn't agree more. It's the most rapid descent from prestige television to soap opera in television history. Just took some people longer than others to realise it.

rightbyte 4y ago

Well I guess they need to do later seasons good in that case. Westworld season 2 was a joke. From a drama in S1 to mindless b-action in S2.

twoodfin 4y ago
I’d disagree that S2 is where the show went wrong. It holds up quite well on rewatch, with probably 3-4 of the best overall episodes. Ironically, I think Nolan & Joy made the same kind of mistake Dr. Ford criticizes in the premiere: They forgot why people wanted to watch Westworld. Fundamentally, the show was about the park, with all its mystery and detail. They seemed to think it was actually about the ideas around AI, consciousness & free will they wanted to explore. Those were modestly compelling, and enough to ride the momentum of the first couple seasons to some passable storytelling assisted by some great performances. But not the same show at all & the plummeting audience reflected that.
- rightbyte 4y ago
  Ye I agree with the later. People wanted a Western with cowboys. It also had this "Greec theater thing word" were the audience, the guests, knew the story but the actors, the hosts, didn't. Concerning the former I guess that is a matter of taste. I watched it with my wife and she was extremely dissatisfied with the change of genre and pace. Lets pretend you know her. You understand why she disliked it right? She loved S1.
  - twoodfin 4y ago
    Yeah, I can imagine a version of that show that’s basically S1 but stretched out much longer. I can also imagine it being quite enjoyable, there was a lot of story space back and front to explore that they didn’t get to before things went to hell in the park. Some of the best parts of S1 were in this mode: “Ooh, Pariah… that’s new and different!” On the other hand, I think it would have required robbing S1 of the coherent, two track, beginning-middle-end story that made it as compelling as any single season of any show.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    Dramatic irony
    - rightbyte 4y ago
      Oh ty
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  > the ideas around AI, consciousness & free will they wanted to explore I haven't seen S2, but with that description, and as an avid fan of the various incarnations of Ghost in the Shell, I want to see S2 to see how they explore those concepts.
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    Poorly.
    - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
      (echoing) D'oh!
  - kshacker 4y ago
    Don't don't just don't. I was just talking to my son about this. They started with a very superior storytelling and by the end it was only mythology, maybe some story but zero "telling". S2 is still comprehensible but it appears they just believed the wrong side of their appreciation and went hyper on that.
  - grantcas 4y ago
    It's becoming clear that with all the brain and consciousness theories out there, the proof will be in the pudding. By this I mean, can any particular theory be used to create a human adult level conscious machine. My bet is on the late Gerald Edelman's Extended Theory of Neuronal Group Selection. The lead group in robotics based on this theory is the Neurorobotics Lab at UC at Irvine. Dr. Edelman distinguished between primary consciousness, which came first in evolution, and that humans share with other conscious animals, and higher order consciousness, which came to only humans with the acquisition of language. A machine with primary consciousness will probably have to come first. What I find special about the TNGS is the Darwin series of automata created at the Neurosciences Institute by Dr. Edelman and his colleagues in the 1990's and 2000's. These machines perform in the real world, not in a restricted simulated world, and display convincing physical behavior indicative of higher psychological functions necessary for consciousness, such as perceptual categorization, memory, and learning. They are based on realistic models of the parts of the biological brain that the theory claims subserve these functions. The extended TNGS allows for the emergence of consciousness based only on further evolutionary development of the brain areas responsible for these functions, in a parsimonious way. No other research I've encountered is anywhere near as convincing. I post because on almost every video and article about the brain and consciousness that I encounter, the attitude seems to be that we still know next to nothing about how the brain and consciousness work; that there's lots of data but no unifying theory. I believe the extended TNGS is that theory. My motivation is to keep that theory in front of the public. And obviously, I consider it the route to a truly conscious machine, primary and higher-order. My advice to people who want to create a conscious machine is to seriously ground themselves in the extended TNGS and the Darwin automata first, and proceed from there, by applying to Jeff Krichmar's lab at UC Irvine, possibly. Dr. Edelman's roadmap to a conscious machine is at https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461 https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461
dbspin 4y ago
Couldn't agree more. It's the most rapid descent from prestige television to soap opera in television history. Just took some people longer than others to realise it.