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Came here to say that (am in Minnesota for Christmas holiday, where it’s currently 1°). It gets much colder than 20°F for extended periods in the Midwest. Is th

Came here to say that (am in Minnesota for Christmas holiday, where it’s currently 1°). It gets much colder than 20°F for extended periods in the Midwest. Is there just not a large enough sample of EV driving in those temperatures to extend the graph?

KennyBlanken 4y ago
Exactly. They likely didn't have enough data, because a)it doesn't actually get that cold for very long, even in the coldest parts of the US and b)there aren't many people in those locations (North Dakota, grandparent comment's home state, has the same population as Boston, Massachusetts. Not the region - just the city itself) and c)there aren't many EVs, either - due to lack of infrastructure for them, lower income levels, and (drumroll please) their lower ranges. Contrary to the knee jerk reaction some people seem to be having, this isn't an conspiratorial attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of Real Americans(TM). I don't understand the reaction, anyway - ICE vehicles plunge in range with cold temperatures too, and there are a bunch of reasons why EVs seem well-suited to rural life. The range reduction doesn't mean squat when the longest average commute in the US - Maine - is 10 miles. Who cares if your 300-350 mile EV only gets 200 miles, when that's still 20 days of commuting, and every hour your car is in your garage, it's "gassing up" with no intervention on your part beyond a few seconds to plug in a cord when you get home? FYI, looking at a smattering of temperature charts, "much colder than 20 degrees for extended periods" is a slight exaggeration for Minnesota.
- remarkEon 4y ago
  I guess I meant “extended periods” to mean “longer than two weeks”, which is about how often I’d fill up the gas tank when growing up there. Average temp in January through March is below 20°F per Wikipedia for most of the state. Regardless, I agree there’s still good use cases for EVs in cold climates.
tantony 4y ago
I have owned a Model 3 in Iowa while living in an apartment with no garage. This was at the beginning of the Covid lockdown where it stayed unused for extended periods of time. The battery was cold-soaked in temps below 20F. Whenever I drove the car, I had almost zero regen-braking, reduced acceleration and the range was decreased by about 30%. For short commutes, that would persist throughout. But whenever I went on longer trips, a one hour drive would get it back to its original performance. The range would stay a bit lower due to higher energy use (~330 Wh/mi instead of 240 Wh/mi in the summer). The navigation would account for this when planning trips and also pre-condition the batteries prior to going to superchargers. On average it added maybe one extra charging stop during road-trips.
- hunter2_ 4y ago
  > almost zero regen-braking This is interesting. I wonder if large capacitors could alleviate this: somewhere to quickly dump the regen energy, and charge the battery with it at some slow rate equivalent to the long-term average regen load. Not only would it help in cold situations where the battery can't be charged quickly, but also situations where the battery would be healthier if not charged quickly, which is always.
  - blonder 4y ago
    While not giving any energy back, Teslas can now detect when regen breaking is limited, and blend in the regular brakes for you, so that you don't have to change your driving style. It has only come out in the past couple of weeks, but I cannot tell the difference when regen is supposedly limited after enabling the feature. Before it was a little dangerous to have to modify your driving style and watch out for how much regen your car uses compared to its normal amount, since after a week of driving an EV in the summer you don't ever really touch the break pedal.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ericvsmith 4y ago
  > almost zero regen-braking Are you sure this is related to the cold, and not just that the batteries were fully charged so that regen had nowhere to put the energy? [Edited to add]: I say this because I see this in all types of weather: I live on the top of a hill, and if the car is fully charge there will be no regenerative braking when heading down the hill.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

Exactly. They likely didn't have enough data, because a)it doesn't actually get that cold for very long, even in the coldest parts of the US and b)there aren't many people in those locations (North Dakota, grandparent comment's home state, has the same population as Boston, Massachusetts. Not the region - just the city itself) and c)there aren't many EVs, either - due to lack of infrastructure for them, lower income levels, and (drumroll please) their lower ranges. Contrary to the knee jerk reaction some people seem to be having, this isn't an conspiratorial attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of Real Americans(TM). I don't understand the reaction, anyway - ICE vehicles plunge in range with cold temperatures too, and there are a bunch of reasons why EVs seem well-suited to rural life. The range reduction doesn't mean squat when the longest average commute in the US - Maine - is 10 miles. Who cares if your 300-350 mile EV only gets 200 miles, when that's still 20 days of commuting, and every hour your car is in your garage, it's "gassing up" with no intervention on your part beyond a few seconds to plug in a cord when you get home? FYI, looking at a smattering of temperature charts, "much colder than 20 degrees for extended periods" is a slight exaggeration for Minnesota.

remarkEon 4y ago
I guess I meant “extended periods” to mean “longer than two weeks”, which is about how often I’d fill up the gas tank when growing up there. Average temp in January through March is below 20°F per Wikipedia for most of the state. Regardless, I agree there’s still good use cases for EVs in cold climates.

tantony 4y ago

I have owned a Model 3 in Iowa while living in an apartment with no garage. This was at the beginning of the Covid lockdown where it stayed unused for extended periods of time. The battery was cold-soaked in temps below 20F. Whenever I drove the car, I had almost zero regen-braking, reduced acceleration and the range was decreased by about 30%. For short commutes, that would persist throughout. But whenever I went on longer trips, a one hour drive would get it back to its original performance. The range would stay a bit lower due to higher energy use (~330 Wh/mi instead of 240 Wh/mi in the summer). The navigation would account for this when planning trips and also pre-condition the batteries prior to going to superchargers. On average it added maybe one extra charging stop during road-trips.

hunter2_ 4y ago
> almost zero regen-braking This is interesting. I wonder if large capacitors could alleviate this: somewhere to quickly dump the regen energy, and charge the battery with it at some slow rate equivalent to the long-term average regen load. Not only would it help in cold situations where the battery can't be charged quickly, but also situations where the battery would be healthier if not charged quickly, which is always.
- blonder 4y ago
  While not giving any energy back, Teslas can now detect when regen breaking is limited, and blend in the regular brakes for you, so that you don't have to change your driving style. It has only come out in the past couple of weeks, but I cannot tell the difference when regen is supposedly limited after enabling the feature. Before it was a little dangerous to have to modify your driving style and watch out for how much regen your car uses compared to its normal amount, since after a week of driving an EV in the summer you don't ever really touch the break pedal.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ericvsmith 4y ago
> almost zero regen-braking Are you sure this is related to the cold, and not just that the batteries were fully charged so that regen had nowhere to put the energy? [Edited to add]: I say this because I see this in all types of weather: I live on the top of a hill, and if the car is fully charge there will be no regenerative braking when heading down the hill.