8 ms·

I care about billionaires shutting down a means of transparency over their actions and about his erratic and irrational application of policies on Twitter that

by _djo_ 4y ago

I care about billionaires shutting down a means of transparency over their actions and about his erratic and irrational application of policies on Twitter that suit his mood, and what the consequences of both might be. It's not just about the aircraft.

n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
His response seems perfectly reasonable to me: no real-time stalking. If your main critique of him is his (hypocritical) carbon usage, post a weekly or monthly summary of his emissions. Or, as he is allowing, post the flight details with a reasonable delay. To conflate real-time stalking with free speech is pretty absurd. He’s not even speaking in hypotheticals —- a nutcase intercepted his car.
- _djo_ 4y ago
  Bellingcat have geolocated the imagery of the alleged stalking incident, showing it took place nowhere near an airport. It was also on a day when ElonJet wasn't operating. Nor is there any way of knowing whether Musk or his family are on board any of these aircraft, as manifests aren't published. He's not allowing posting the flight details with a delay either. That was a temporary rule change and rapidly walked back.
  - TigeriusKirk 4y ago
    >It was also on a day when ElonJet wasn't operating. This is false and easily verified for yourself.
    - _djo_ 4y ago
      Then why did you not do that? ElonJet's last mention of N628TS before the attack was to report it landing at LAX the day before.[0] Nothing on the day of the claimed attack. [0] https://www.facebook.com/ElonJet/posts/pfbid02Ldh5x93kQe6E6EPxiAPc7yuTnyka5vAB9kXJ6uv1MnURcx4fa3bB55hZW43kZ32Yl https://www.facebook.com/ElonJet/posts/pfbid02Ldh5x93kQe6E6E...
      - fundad 4y ago
        The false flag was so damn desperate. It’s natural that we can’t look away. Especially considering I was raised to believe desperation repels people.
  - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
    > Bellingcat have geolocated the imagery of the alleged stalking incident, showing it took place nowhere near an airport It must be somewhere but can't find it on Bellincat's site. Do you have some pointer? https://www.bellingcat.com/category/news/ https://www.bellingcat.com/category/news/
    - _djo_ 4y ago
      Correction, someone in their community did and they confirmed it: https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1603454821700452365 https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1603454821700452365
- brookst 4y ago
  So why did Elon himself “conflate” sharing publicly available info about his travels with free speech? He literally used this exact example to demonstrate his commitment to free speech.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    And after his family was endangered his opinion changed. Are you suggesting that it's not possible for someone to have a real life, personal experience that changes their opinion on a specific talking point? Are you so stubborn that your opinions never change?
    - Kye 4y ago
      It's not like this was an unknown possible outcome to free speech to someone who travels with security. If he didn't think it through before saying he wouldn't ban the account, then it's just another case of him shooting his mouth off.
      - fundad 4y ago
        He literally bought the company to unban people whose speech endangered people. But he wasn’t convinced the harm was real. I guess it’s all just vibes.
    - brookst 4y ago
      So he had no empathy for victims of stalking before, but once it happened to him, his opinion changed? I don’t have “talking points”. I respected gay people before a close family member came out. I understand that many people in the world have lived experiences that I never will. And I try not to shoot my mouth off, and when I do, I apologize. But that’s kind of the opposite of what’s going on here, right? He didn’t care that his new policies endangered people until it happened to him. Only being capable of empathy for yourself is not really something to celebrate.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  To conflate real-time stalking with @ElonJets is pretty absurd.
- mattzito 4y ago
  But again, the info is publicly available, there is a mechanism to obscure it, and he is not availing himself of it. Separately, the nutcase who intercepted his car did so miles away from any airport and there’s no evidence or police report to suggest that the flight details were what allowed this to happen. I’ll also throw out there that he has a security detail for his family, which makes sense if you’re (one of) the richest people in the world, regardless of whether someone tweets your jet’s location. He’s actually far better equipped to deal with stalkers than the typical public figure. Doesn’t make it okay, of course, but look at what happened to Paul pelosi - the spouse of the 3rd in line to succeed the presidency gets his head smashed in - where’s the outrage over how their location was found?
  - tracker1 4y ago
    So if someone can afford a security detail, it's okay to stalk and attempt to harm them? As to publicly available information... if it's so readily available, what is the point of (re)publishing live data if not to cause harm?
    - _djo_ 4y ago
      Sweeney enhanced the information with estimates of carbon emissions.
      - tracker1 4y ago
        Then there's no need for it to be real time then.
        _djo_ 4y ago
        It's not permitted at all, real time or otherwise.
        tracker1 4y ago
        It's been stated that it would be allowed with a reasonable delay (iirc 24h). The point stands though... if the intent is anything other than harm, it doesn't need to be real time. If the intent is to show carbon use, than a monthly report would be more than enough.
- jcranmer 4y ago
  > He’s not even speaking in hypotheticals —- a nutcase intercepted his car. This appears to be unrelated to any actual tracking of his plane. He was so concerned for his safety that he never filed any police report, instead asking Twitter to dox the assailant. Moreover, he banned the elonjet account, and then banned anyone who linked to said account, which included journalists reporting on the ban. He then bailed out of a call when said journalists asked how linking to an account that is suspended and shows nothing can be considered doxxing. He also held a poll on when the elonjet account should be unbanned, redid the poll when "now" when, and still hasn't done anything when "now" won again.
  - Terretta 4y ago
    > till hasn't done anything when "now" won again. He's done something. He's banned other journalists who simply asked him a question while @tagging banned journalists. After the poll.
  - concordDance 4y ago
    As best I can tell they're unbanned now. e.g. https://mobile.twitter.com/RMac18/ https://mobile.twitter.com/RMac18/
  - PM_me_your_math 4y ago
    This is false. He banned the so-called journalists for linking to alternative sources for Elon jet tracking.
    - danogentili 4y ago
      Which either way is publicly available, fully legal information, given that as per OP, elon's jets aren't using a PIA transponder code.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - _djo_ 4y ago
      Nope. Some were banned for linking to the LAPD statement, some for just asking him follow up questions.
PM_me_your_math 4y ago
Oh like working with the FBI, DHS, and CIA ...plus third-party contractors (many of which are not based in the United States) to secretly shut down speech the government doesn't like? That kind of shutting down transparency?
- jcranmer 4y ago
  > to secretly shut down speech the government doesn't like Given that there were several press reports about this at the time it happened, how was it secret?

by _djo_ 4y ago

n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago

His response seems perfectly reasonable to me: no real-time stalking. If your main critique of him is his (hypocritical) carbon usage, post a weekly or monthly summary of his emissions. Or, as he is allowing, post the flight details with a reasonable delay. To conflate real-time stalking with free speech is pretty absurd. He’s not even speaking in hypotheticals —- a nutcase intercepted his car.

_djo_ 4y ago
Bellingcat have geolocated the imagery of the alleged stalking incident, showing it took place nowhere near an airport. It was also on a day when ElonJet wasn't operating. Nor is there any way of knowing whether Musk or his family are on board any of these aircraft, as manifests aren't published. He's not allowing posting the flight details with a delay either. That was a temporary rule change and rapidly walked back.
- TigeriusKirk 4y ago
  >It was also on a day when ElonJet wasn't operating. This is false and easily verified for yourself.
  - _djo_ 4y ago
    Then why did you not do that? ElonJet's last mention of N628TS before the attack was to report it landing at LAX the day before.[0] Nothing on the day of the claimed attack. [0] https://www.facebook.com/ElonJet/posts/pfbid02Ldh5x93kQe6E6EPxiAPc7yuTnyka5vAB9kXJ6uv1MnURcx4fa3bB55hZW43kZ32Yl https://www.facebook.com/ElonJet/posts/pfbid02Ldh5x93kQe6E6E...
    - fundad 4y ago
      The false flag was so damn desperate. It’s natural that we can’t look away. Especially considering I was raised to believe desperation repels people.
- JPLeRouzic 4y ago
  > Bellingcat have geolocated the imagery of the alleged stalking incident, showing it took place nowhere near an airport It must be somewhere but can't find it on Bellincat's site. Do you have some pointer? https://www.bellingcat.com/category/news/ https://www.bellingcat.com/category/news/
  - _djo_ 4y ago
    Correction, someone in their community did and they confirmed it: https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1603454821700452365 https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1603454821700452365
brookst 4y ago
So why did Elon himself “conflate” sharing publicly available info about his travels with free speech? He literally used this exact example to demonstrate his commitment to free speech.
- tracker1 4y ago
  And after his family was endangered his opinion changed. Are you suggesting that it's not possible for someone to have a real life, personal experience that changes their opinion on a specific talking point? Are you so stubborn that your opinions never change?
  - Kye 4y ago
    It's not like this was an unknown possible outcome to free speech to someone who travels with security. If he didn't think it through before saying he wouldn't ban the account, then it's just another case of him shooting his mouth off.
    - fundad 4y ago
      He literally bought the company to unban people whose speech endangered people. But he wasn’t convinced the harm was real. I guess it’s all just vibes.
  - brookst 4y ago
    So he had no empathy for victims of stalking before, but once it happened to him, his opinion changed? I don’t have “talking points”. I respected gay people before a close family member came out. I understand that many people in the world have lived experiences that I never will. And I try not to shoot my mouth off, and when I do, I apologize. But that’s kind of the opposite of what’s going on here, right? He didn’t care that his new policies endangered people until it happened to him. Only being capable of empathy for yourself is not really something to celebrate.
nickthegreek 4y ago
To conflate real-time stalking with @ElonJets is pretty absurd.
mattzito 4y ago
But again, the info is publicly available, there is a mechanism to obscure it, and he is not availing himself of it. Separately, the nutcase who intercepted his car did so miles away from any airport and there’s no evidence or police report to suggest that the flight details were what allowed this to happen. I’ll also throw out there that he has a security detail for his family, which makes sense if you’re (one of) the richest people in the world, regardless of whether someone tweets your jet’s location. He’s actually far better equipped to deal with stalkers than the typical public figure. Doesn’t make it okay, of course, but look at what happened to Paul pelosi - the spouse of the 3rd in line to succeed the presidency gets his head smashed in - where’s the outrage over how their location was found?
- tracker1 4y ago
  So if someone can afford a security detail, it's okay to stalk and attempt to harm them? As to publicly available information... if it's so readily available, what is the point of (re)publishing live data if not to cause harm?
  - _djo_ 4y ago
    Sweeney enhanced the information with estimates of carbon emissions.
    - tracker1 4y ago
      Then there's no need for it to be real time then.
      - _djo_ 4y ago
        It's not permitted at all, real time or otherwise.
        tracker1 4y ago
        It's been stated that it would be allowed with a reasonable delay (iirc 24h). The point stands though... if the intent is anything other than harm, it doesn't need to be real time. If the intent is to show carbon use, than a monthly report would be more than enough.
jcranmer 4y ago
> He’s not even speaking in hypotheticals —- a nutcase intercepted his car. This appears to be unrelated to any actual tracking of his plane. He was so concerned for his safety that he never filed any police report, instead asking Twitter to dox the assailant. Moreover, he banned the elonjet account, and then banned anyone who linked to said account, which included journalists reporting on the ban. He then bailed out of a call when said journalists asked how linking to an account that is suspended and shows nothing can be considered doxxing. He also held a poll on when the elonjet account should be unbanned, redid the poll when "now" when, and still hasn't done anything when "now" won again.
- Terretta 4y ago
  > till hasn't done anything when "now" won again. He's done something. He's banned other journalists who simply asked him a question while @tagging banned journalists. After the poll.
- concordDance 4y ago
  As best I can tell they're unbanned now. e.g. https://mobile.twitter.com/RMac18/ https://mobile.twitter.com/RMac18/
- PM_me_your_math 4y ago
  This is false. He banned the so-called journalists for linking to alternative sources for Elon jet tracking.
  - danogentili 4y ago
    Which either way is publicly available, fully legal information, given that as per OP, elon's jets aren't using a PIA transponder code.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - _djo_ 4y ago
    Nope. Some were banned for linking to the LAPD statement, some for just asking him follow up questions.

PM_me_your_math 4y ago

Oh like working with the FBI, DHS, and CIA ...plus third-party contractors (many of which are not based in the United States) to secretly shut down speech the government doesn't like? That kind of shutting down transparency?

jcranmer 4y ago
> to secretly shut down speech the government doesn't like Given that there were several press reports about this at the time it happened, how was it secret?