5 ms·

ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. Anyone can receive this information with easily available equ

ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. Anyone can receive this information with easily available equipment and tell everyone about it on a website. I don’t think it’s technically possible to censor this information. If you’re worried about someone shooting you down or whatever then you’re going to have to find a different way to counter this. Maybe fit countermeasures or buy another two planes and keep people guessing which one you are on. But it seems overly paranoid TBH.

wizeman 4y ago
> ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. ADS-B information is available publicly, but what's not always available publicly is which aircraft (or rather, which aircraft identifier) belongs to whom. Specifically, if an aircraft is subscribed to this program, then it receives a new temporary identifier every month, unconnected to the owner: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy And Elon's jet is subscribed to this program, as confirmed by Elon himself: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665 So I think the problem is not tracking some airplane, the problem is connecting an airplane identifier to its owner by other means and then publicly broadcasting that information (i.e. make it easily accessible), when its owner has requested the government for privacy protection under a government program which was specifically designed to provide that exact type of privacy protection.
- philistine 4y ago
  You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. What is he scared of? A scud missile? For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye.
  - wizeman 4y ago
    > You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. I'm guessing most participants in that privacy program are filthy rich and yet the program was still created. You can argue that the whereabouts are in the public interest, but the real-time whereabouts are much harder to justify. > Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. You'd do if you went to the airport before he lands. > What is he scared of? A scud missile? I'm guessing he's scared of someone hurting or kidnapping him or his family. You would be too if you were in his position, believe me. No amount of hired security can completely mitigate the risk of your exact coordinates being broadcast in real-time, every single day. It's amazing to me how much lack of empathy people have against other people, just because they're rich or famous. Or maybe it's just ignorance about the risks these people face every single day. > For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye. You don't need his location in real-time for that.
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      > It's amazing to me how much lack of empathy people have against other people, just because they're rich or famous. Or maybe it's just ignorance about the risks these people face every single day. I wouldn’t do any of this power hungry behavior while being a reason why society is so unfair. You’re defending a billionaire with empathy arguments while we have homeless people in the country and abroad. I guarantee you if Elon gives me $1B I will never use security.
      - wizeman 4y ago
        > You’re defending a billionaire with empathy arguments while we have homeless people in the country and abroad. The argument you just used is called "whataboutism" and it's a logical fallacy in and of itself [1]. It's also a logical fallacy to imply that you can only have empathy for homeless people or for rich people, but not both. So yes, I have empathy for homeless people. I also have empathy for rich people. But apparently, not many people have empathy for the latter. Mind you, I'm not saying that I'm perfect or extremely virtuous -- I have my own demons as well. But I don't have a grudge against rich people just because they're rich, in fact I admire these people because the wealth with which society has rewarded them implies that they have been doing a great service to their fellow humans (otherwise why would people give them money?). I only have a grudge against people whose wealth was obtained by immoral/forced means (rich or otherwise). I also think Elon Musk has made many mistakes with his Twitter acquisition and subsequent management, but since Twitter is his company, I also think he had the legitimate right to make those mistakes and to disagree with our opinion. > I guarantee you if Elon gives me $1B I will never use security. I guarantee you, if a billion people in the world knew you had $1B, you would need to be extremely careful with your physical security, in many ways that you wouldn't like. Unless, of course, you lived as a complete hermit in some undisclosed off-the-grid location. It's easy to make grandiose claims in an Internet forum while sitting in your chair and not fearing for your life, but if you followed through with your claims while being very famous, it's very likely that reality would sooner or later punch you right in your face, as many have eventually discovered, unfortunately [2]. These things even happen because of your own family members (including spouses) and friends, not to mention the billion other complete strangers who would know you are very wealthy. Mind you, I'm not saying that there aren't people with a billion dollars who are able to live normal lives without too many security precautions, but usually these people either are very strict about not advertising that they are very wealthy, or else, it is likely that they eventually learn the hard way the real security risks that they are under [2]. Regarding the list of kidnappings in [2], which also includes many murders of celebrities and/or their family members, keep in mind the following points: 1. It includes celebrities/famous people who already had reasonable security. Yet, they weren't able to prevent the kidnapping. 2. It doesn't include many publicly known cases of wealthy people that were kidnapped and tortured or murdered just because they were wealthy (I know of a few cases like these just in recent years, which are not included in the list). 3. Even worse, doesn't even include the vast majority of kidnappings, because for security reasons they are usually kept private, whenever possible/feasible. 4. Not to mention, it also doesn't include the many failed attempts, as these are not part of the list by definition. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kidnappings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kidnappings
- _djo_ 4y ago
  Musk is lying. This is what an aircraft in the PIA programme looks like. https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a0fe01 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a0fe01 Note the 'PIA' flag and lack of additional information that would normally be pulled from the registry. In fact if you searched the registry for A0FE01 you would not find the actual aircraft but a placeholder. Musk uses three jets, N628TS, N272BG, and N502SX. None are in the PIA programme, all are easily visible on ADSB Exchange and most importantly have their ICAO hex codes listed publicly on the FAA registry, along with ownership information. So please, let's stop repeating this false claim. N628TS: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=628TS https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul... N272BG: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a2ae0a https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a2ae0a https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=272BG https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul... N502SX: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a64304 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a64304 https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=502SX https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...
  - leereeves 4y ago
    As was pointed out in responses to your independent post about this[1], aircraft enrolled in PIA still have public permanent codes, which they must use when outside the US, as Musk is now (at the World Cup in Qatar). Linking to the adsbexchange page for that permanent code doesn't prove that no anonymous temporary PIA codes exist. You should be more careful before accusing someone of lying. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34037780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34037780
    - _djo_ 4y ago
      You're right about international flights and I should have specified that, but you can view the aircraft's recent US-only flights and see that it also used its permanent ICAO code.
      - leereeves 4y ago

wizeman 4y ago

> ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. ADS-B information is available publicly, but what's not always available publicly is which aircraft (or rather, which aircraft identifier) belongs to whom. Specifically, if an aircraft is subscribed to this program, then it receives a new temporary identifier every month, unconnected to the owner: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy And Elon's jet is subscribed to this program, as confirmed by Elon himself: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665 So I think the problem is not tracking some airplane, the problem is connecting an airplane identifier to its owner by other means and then publicly broadcasting that information (i.e. make it easily accessible), when its owner has requested the government for privacy protection under a government program which was specifically designed to provide that exact type of privacy protection.

philistine 4y ago
You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. What is he scared of? A scud missile? For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye.
- wizeman 4y ago
  > You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. I'm guessing most participants in that privacy program are filthy rich and yet the program was still created. You can argue that the whereabouts are in the public interest, but the real-time whereabouts are much harder to justify. > Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. You'd do if you went to the airport before he lands. > What is he scared of? A scud missile? I'm guessing he's scared of someone hurting or kidnapping him or his family. You would be too if you were in his position, believe me. No amount of hired security can completely mitigate the risk of your exact coordinates being broadcast in real-time, every single day. It's amazing to me how much lack of empathy people have against other people, just because they're rich or famous. Or maybe it's just ignorance about the risks these people face every single day. > For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye. You don't need his location in real-time for that.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    > It's amazing to me how much lack of empathy people have against other people, just because they're rich or famous. Or maybe it's just ignorance about the risks these people face every single day. I wouldn’t do any of this power hungry behavior while being a reason why society is so unfair. You’re defending a billionaire with empathy arguments while we have homeless people in the country and abroad. I guarantee you if Elon gives me $1B I will never use security.
    - wizeman 4y ago
      > You’re defending a billionaire with empathy arguments while we have homeless people in the country and abroad. The argument you just used is called "whataboutism" and it's a logical fallacy in and of itself [1]. It's also a logical fallacy to imply that you can only have empathy for homeless people or for rich people, but not both. So yes, I have empathy for homeless people. I also have empathy for rich people. But apparently, not many people have empathy for the latter. Mind you, I'm not saying that I'm perfect or extremely virtuous -- I have my own demons as well. But I don't have a grudge against rich people just because they're rich, in fact I admire these people because the wealth with which society has rewarded them implies that they have been doing a great service to their fellow humans (otherwise why would people give them money?). I only have a grudge against people whose wealth was obtained by immoral/forced means (rich or otherwise). I also think Elon Musk has made many mistakes with his Twitter acquisition and subsequent management, but since Twitter is his company, I also think he had the legitimate right to make those mistakes and to disagree with our opinion. > I guarantee you if Elon gives me $1B I will never use security. I guarantee you, if a billion people in the world knew you had $1B, you would need to be extremely careful with your physical security, in many ways that you wouldn't like. Unless, of course, you lived as a complete hermit in some undisclosed off-the-grid location. It's easy to make grandiose claims in an Internet forum while sitting in your chair and not fearing for your life, but if you followed through with your claims while being very famous, it's very likely that reality would sooner or later punch you right in your face, as many have eventually discovered, unfortunately [2]. These things even happen because of your own family members (including spouses) and friends, not to mention the billion other complete strangers who would know you are very wealthy. Mind you, I'm not saying that there aren't people with a billion dollars who are able to live normal lives without too many security precautions, but usually these people either are very strict about not advertising that they are very wealthy, or else, it is likely that they eventually learn the hard way the real security risks that they are under [2]. Regarding the list of kidnappings in [2], which also includes many murders of celebrities and/or their family members, keep in mind the following points: 1. It includes celebrities/famous people who already had reasonable security. Yet, they weren't able to prevent the kidnapping. 2. It doesn't include many publicly known cases of wealthy people that were kidnapped and tortured or murdered just because they were wealthy (I know of a few cases like these just in recent years, which are not included in the list). 3. Even worse, doesn't even include the vast majority of kidnappings, because for security reasons they are usually kept private, whenever possible/feasible. 4. Not to mention, it also doesn't include the many failed attempts, as these are not part of the list by definition. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kidnappings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kidnappings
_djo_ 4y ago
Musk is lying. This is what an aircraft in the PIA programme looks like. https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a0fe01 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a0fe01 Note the 'PIA' flag and lack of additional information that would normally be pulled from the registry. In fact if you searched the registry for A0FE01 you would not find the actual aircraft but a placeholder. Musk uses three jets, N628TS, N272BG, and N502SX. None are in the PIA programme, all are easily visible on ADSB Exchange and most importantly have their ICAO hex codes listed publicly on the FAA registry, along with ownership information. So please, let's stop repeating this false claim. N628TS: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=628TS https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul... N272BG: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a2ae0a https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a2ae0a https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=272BG https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul... N502SX: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a64304 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a64304 https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=502SX https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...
- leereeves 4y ago
  As was pointed out in responses to your independent post about this[1], aircraft enrolled in PIA still have public permanent codes, which they must use when outside the US, as Musk is now (at the World Cup in Qatar). Linking to the adsbexchange page for that permanent code doesn't prove that no anonymous temporary PIA codes exist. You should be more careful before accusing someone of lying. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34037780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34037780
  - _djo_ 4y ago
    You're right about international flights and I should have specified that, but you can view the aircraft's recent US-only flights and see that it also used its permanent ICAO code.
    - leereeves 4y ago