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Wouldn’t a 24 hour delay be enough to satisfy the curious about Elon’s flying habits, without creating a possible security risk? I don’t know how real the risk

Wouldn’t a 24 hour delay be enough to satisfy the curious about Elon’s flying habits, without creating a possible security risk? I don’t know how real the risk is, but it is certainly not zero, as he is a controversial public figure.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ArchitectAnon 4y ago
ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. Anyone can receive this information with easily available equipment and tell everyone about it on a website. I don’t think it’s technically possible to censor this information. If you’re worried about someone shooting you down or whatever then you’re going to have to find a different way to counter this. Maybe fit countermeasures or buy another two planes and keep people guessing which one you are on. But it seems overly paranoid TBH.
- wizeman 4y ago
  > ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. ADS-B information is available publicly, but what's not always available publicly is which aircraft (or rather, which aircraft identifier) belongs to whom. Specifically, if an aircraft is subscribed to this program, then it receives a new temporary identifier every month, unconnected to the owner: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy And Elon's jet is subscribed to this program, as confirmed by Elon himself: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665 So I think the problem is not tracking some airplane, the problem is connecting an airplane identifier to its owner by other means and then publicly broadcasting that information (i.e. make it easily accessible), when its owner has requested the government for privacy protection under a government program which was specifically designed to provide that exact type of privacy protection.
  - philistine 4y ago
    You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. What is he scared of? A scud missile? For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye.
    - wizeman 4y ago
      > You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. I'm guessing most participants in that privacy program are filthy rich and yet the program was still created. You can argue that the whereabouts are in the public interest, but the real-time whereabouts are much harder to justify. > Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. You'd do if you went to the airport before he lands. > What is he scared of? A scud missile? I'm guessing he's scared of someone hurting or kidnapping him or his family. You would be too if you were in his position, believe me. No amount of hired security can completely mitigate the risk of your exact coordinates being broadcast in real-time, every single day. It's amazing to me how much lack of empathy people have against other people, just because they're rich or famous. Or maybe it's just ignorance about the risks these people face every single day. > For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye. You don't need his location in real-time for that.
      - skinnymuch 4y ago
        > It's amazing to me how much lack of empathy people have against other people, just because they're rich or famous. Or maybe it's just ignorance about the risks these people face every single day. I wouldn’t do any of this power hungry behavior while being a reason why society is so unfair. You’re defending a billionaire with empathy arguments while we have homeless people in the country and abroad. I guarantee you if Elon gives me $1B I will never use security.
wizeman 4y ago
> Wouldn’t a 24 hour delay be enough to satisfy the curious about Elon’s flying habits, without creating a possible security risk? I don’t know how real the risk is, but it is certainly not zero, as he is a controversial public figure. I agree with you, but I think the problem is that if you publish Elon's flying habits with a 24 hour delay, then you're effectively doxxing which airplane is Elon's jet, which would allow anyone to track Elon's jet in real-time for the next month, basically. This could be somewhat avoided if Elon's jet received a temporary private aircraft identifier for every flight (instead of every month, which is how it works currently [1]). But even then, if the airplane landed on a small airport (i.e. with few aircraft on the ground), it would still be possible to determine whether an airplane that is taking off is Elon's jet or not, based on the fact that Elon's jet landed there on the previous day and the destination for today's flight is [some place where Elon commonly flies to]. [1] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ArchitectAnon 4y ago

ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. Anyone can receive this information with easily available equipment and tell everyone about it on a website. I don’t think it’s technically possible to censor this information. If you’re worried about someone shooting you down or whatever then you’re going to have to find a different way to counter this. Maybe fit countermeasures or buy another two planes and keep people guessing which one you are on. But it seems overly paranoid TBH.

wizeman 4y ago
> ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. ADS-B information is available publicly, but what's not always available publicly is which aircraft (or rather, which aircraft identifier) belongs to whom. Specifically, if an aircraft is subscribed to this program, then it receives a new temporary identifier every month, unconnected to the owner: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy And Elon's jet is subscribed to this program, as confirmed by Elon himself: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665 So I think the problem is not tracking some airplane, the problem is connecting an airplane identifier to its owner by other means and then publicly broadcasting that information (i.e. make it easily accessible), when its owner has requested the government for privacy protection under a government program which was specifically designed to provide that exact type of privacy protection.
- philistine 4y ago
  You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. What is he scared of? A scud missile? For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye.
  - wizeman 4y ago
    > You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. I'm guessing most participants in that privacy program are filthy rich and yet the program was still created. You can argue that the whereabouts are in the public interest, but the real-time whereabouts are much harder to justify. > Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. You'd do if you went to the airport before he lands. > What is he scared of? A scud missile? I'm guessing he's scared of someone hurting or kidnapping him or his family. You would be too if you were in his position, believe me. No amount of hired security can completely mitigate the risk of your exact coordinates being broadcast in real-time, every single day. It's amazing to me how much lack of empathy people have against other people, just because they're rich or famous. Or maybe it's just ignorance about the risks these people face every single day. > For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye. You don't need his location in real-time for that.
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      > It's amazing to me how much lack of empathy people have against other people, just because they're rich or famous. Or maybe it's just ignorance about the risks these people face every single day. I wouldn’t do any of this power hungry behavior while being a reason why society is so unfair. You’re defending a billionaire with empathy arguments while we have homeless people in the country and abroad. I guarantee you if Elon gives me $1B I will never use security.

wizeman 4y ago

> Wouldn’t a 24 hour delay be enough to satisfy the curious about Elon’s flying habits, without creating a possible security risk? I don’t know how real the risk is, but it is certainly not zero, as he is a controversial public figure. I agree with you, but I think the problem is that if you publish Elon's flying habits with a 24 hour delay, then you're effectively doxxing which airplane is Elon's jet, which would allow anyone to track Elon's jet in real-time for the next month, basically. This could be somewhat avoided if Elon's jet received a temporary private aircraft identifier for every flight (instead of every month, which is how it works currently [1]). But even then, if the airplane landed on a small airport (i.e. with few aircraft on the ground), it would still be possible to determine whether an airplane that is taking off is Elon's jet or not, based on the fact that Elon's jet landed there on the previous day and the destination for today's flight is [some place where Elon commonly flies to]. [1] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy