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The “witch hunt” refers to the actions taken by the incoming Johnson government, who kicked a bunch of generally respected, experienced parliamentarians out of

The “witch hunt” refers to the actions taken by the incoming Johnson government, who kicked a bunch of generally respected, experienced parliamentarians out of the party because they weren’t “Brexity” enough. We’re not even talking about anti-Brexit people - just the ones that resisted the obviously broken approach that was being taken. The result was a government forced to bang on about how great an objectively bad process was because nobody was left to say “if you’re going to do this then you need to be realistic about the cost”. And implementing a known-bad policy while trying to pretend it’s great completely fucks a government.

brigandish 4y ago
My first question would be, respected by whom, and my second would be, whose respect matters? My guess would be that it was the voters who were most important as they provided a majority to the next most important people, the executive. Do you think those voters respect those MPs? Let's see. 21 Tory MPs had the whip removed for defying the party line and signalling their intent to defy Brexit: - Kenneth Clarke, sniffed the political winds and stood down. Got given a golden handshake to the Lords. - Philip Hammond - you must be joking, right? Still managed to get a seat in the Lords though. - Rory Stewart. Do you think those who voted Brexit respect him? Might win in a contest with Hammond over who is disliked less. So well respected he couldn't even keep his campaign for mayor of London going to the start line, even with London being a remain stronghold. - Dominic Grieve would not even beat Guy Verhofstadt in a contest voted on by leave supporters over who is liked less, as evidenced by losing his seat to his Tory replacement. I half expected Guy Fawkes day to be renamed Dominic Grieve day. Still could. - David Gauke has an instructive Wikipedia entry[1]: > Gauke stood in his constituency as an independent candidate, and came second with 26% of the vote, by far the best result of any of those former Conservative Members who sought re-election as independents. That'll make the rest of the list an anti-climax but let's have some fun drilling the point home: - Antoinette Sandbach, stood as a LibDem and lost. - Sir Oliver Letwin, didn't stand again. I don't know anyone that respects him[2]. - Justine Greening, did not stand. Why not? She was savvy enough to see what was coming. - Sam Gyimah, stood as a LibDem, lost seat to Conservatives, coming third behind Labour. - Guto Bebb, didn't stand. Previously managed to gain much respect by bullying a man with Asperger's[3]. - Anne Milton, lost seat in 4th place. Tories kept her seat with a leave supporter in her place. - Alistair Burt, Caroline Nokes, Greg Clark, Sir Nicholas Soames, Ed Vaizey, Margot James, Richard Benyon, Stephen Hammond, Steve Brine and Richard Harrington had the whip restored. Soames didn't stand at the next election, Harrington, Vaizey and Benyon got bumped up to the Lords where they love remainer Tories. Stephen Hammond and Steve Brine kept their seats with much reduced majorities. Jo Johnson and Amber Rudd also resigned from the cabinet in support of the rebels and stood down at the next election. Johnson was bumped up to the Lords, because there aren't enough anti-democratic lords, apparently, though their record (and entire structure and history) would suggest otherwise. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gauke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gauke [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Letwin#1985_Broadwater_Farm_memo_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Letwin#1985_Broadwater_... [3] https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/aberconwy-mp-guto-bebb-embroiled-7728164 https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/aberconwy-...
- matthewmacleod 4y ago
  I'm impressed at the amount of effort you went into arguing against something I said that was pretty tangential to your point. An entertaining read though – thanks. I think it goes to demonstrate quite tidily the utter mind-rot on the part of some people in the UK right now.
  - brigandish 4y ago
    > The “witch hunt” refers to the actions taken by the incoming Johnson government, who kicked a bunch of generally respected, experienced parliamentarians out of the party because they weren’t “Brexity” enough. We’re not even talking about anti-Brexit people - just the ones that resisted the obviously broken approach that was being taken. That was half of your comment, the opening part, and in response to my comment, yet somehow, going into detail about a) why it wasn't a witch hunt, and b) refuting the premises upon which you relied is somehow pretty tangential to my point? > I think it goes to demonstrate quite tidily the utter mind-rot on the part of some people in the UK right now. Do you always respond to cognitive dissonance with personal slights, and do you know that this is HN and not Twitter?

brigandish 4y ago

My first question would be, respected by whom, and my second would be, whose respect matters? My guess would be that it was the voters who were most important as they provided a majority to the next most important people, the executive. Do you think those voters respect those MPs? Let's see. 21 Tory MPs had the whip removed for defying the party line and signalling their intent to defy Brexit: - Kenneth Clarke, sniffed the political winds and stood down. Got given a golden handshake to the Lords. - Philip Hammond - you must be joking, right? Still managed to get a seat in the Lords though. - Rory Stewart. Do you think those who voted Brexit respect him? Might win in a contest with Hammond over who is disliked less. So well respected he couldn't even keep his campaign for mayor of London going to the start line, even with London being a remain stronghold. - Dominic Grieve would not even beat Guy Verhofstadt in a contest voted on by leave supporters over who is liked less, as evidenced by losing his seat to his Tory replacement. I half expected Guy Fawkes day to be renamed Dominic Grieve day. Still could. - David Gauke has an instructive Wikipedia entry[1]: > Gauke stood in his constituency as an independent candidate, and came second with 26% of the vote, by far the best result of any of those former Conservative Members who sought re-election as independents. That'll make the rest of the list an anti-climax but let's have some fun drilling the point home: - Antoinette Sandbach, stood as a LibDem and lost. - Sir Oliver Letwin, didn't stand again. I don't know anyone that respects him[2]. - Justine Greening, did not stand. Why not? She was savvy enough to see what was coming. - Sam Gyimah, stood as a LibDem, lost seat to Conservatives, coming third behind Labour. - Guto Bebb, didn't stand. Previously managed to gain much respect by bullying a man with Asperger's[3]. - Anne Milton, lost seat in 4th place. Tories kept her seat with a leave supporter in her place. - Alistair Burt, Caroline Nokes, Greg Clark, Sir Nicholas Soames, Ed Vaizey, Margot James, Richard Benyon, Stephen Hammond, Steve Brine and Richard Harrington had the whip restored. Soames didn't stand at the next election, Harrington, Vaizey and Benyon got bumped up to the Lords where they love remainer Tories. Stephen Hammond and Steve Brine kept their seats with much reduced majorities. Jo Johnson and Amber Rudd also resigned from the cabinet in support of the rebels and stood down at the next election. Johnson was bumped up to the Lords, because there aren't enough anti-democratic lords, apparently, though their record (and entire structure and history) would suggest otherwise. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gauke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gauke [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Letwin#1985_Broadwater_Farm_memo_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Letwin#1985_Broadwater_... [3] https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/aberconwy-mp-guto-bebb-embroiled-7728164 https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/aberconwy-...

matthewmacleod 4y ago
I'm impressed at the amount of effort you went into arguing against something I said that was pretty tangential to your point. An entertaining read though – thanks. I think it goes to demonstrate quite tidily the utter mind-rot on the part of some people in the UK right now.
- brigandish 4y ago
  > The “witch hunt” refers to the actions taken by the incoming Johnson government, who kicked a bunch of generally respected, experienced parliamentarians out of the party because they weren’t “Brexity” enough. We’re not even talking about anti-Brexit people - just the ones that resisted the obviously broken approach that was being taken. That was half of your comment, the opening part, and in response to my comment, yet somehow, going into detail about a) why it wasn't a witch hunt, and b) refuting the premises upon which you relied is somehow pretty tangential to my point? > I think it goes to demonstrate quite tidily the utter mind-rot on the part of some people in the UK right now. Do you always respond to cognitive dissonance with personal slights, and do you know that this is HN and not Twitter?