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"It sounds like thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering." Why is that your take? Why isn't it "Thousands of C

"It sounds like thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering." Why is that your take? Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? or some other take? We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair...

msla 4y ago
> Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? Because nobody's made that case. Making a case requires evidence. Not handwaving and appeals to movie plots. > We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair... As long as we're trading conspiracy theories, the person who reported that was paid off by the right wing to make MAID seem horrible, and therefore something that should be ended, and my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  The case is already out there. I read an article on cbc that was reporting some insane stuff around MAID, to the point of being scary: yes the government is trying to save money.
- wernercd 4y ago
  "Nobody's made the case" Tons of people are making the case. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanising-the-poor/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanisin... "Since then, things have only gotten worse. A woman in Ontario was forced into euthanasia because her housing benefits did not allow her to get better housing which didn’t aggravate her crippling allergies. Another disabled woman applied to die because she ‘simply cannot afford to keep on living’. Another sought euthanasia because Covid-related debt left her unable to pay for the treatment which kept her chronic pain bearable – under the present government, disabled Canadians got $600 in additional financial assistance during Covid; university students got $5,000." So again: Why isn't the take that Thousands are dying to soon to save money? "As long as we're trading conspiracy theories," Other than my "conspiracy" theory being main stream media reported and a simple statement backed by fact. Not your cockamamey bullshit: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-veterans-affairs-maid-counselling-1.6560136 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-vete... "According to the report, the veteran called VAC seeking support for PTSD when the employee brought up medical assistance in dying, or euthanasia, unprompted." Oh wait... that's the wrong one. That's not the Wheelchair one... hard to find the right one in the mountain of evidence. https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthanize-christine-gauthier/ https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthani... "A paraplegic former Canadian military member is ripping her government, which offered to euthanize her after she complained about delays having a wheelchair lift installed in her home." If main stream, reliable news sources are 'conspiracy theories' then I'm not sure what you consider real news. "my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does." Other than the fact that my "theory" has backing evidence... and yours is shit pulled out of your ass. You really need to learn what a conspiracy theory is and when real life evidence makes it not a theory.
  - msla 4y ago
    Why are you so absurdly adamant about people not being able to end suffering? You dig up some bizarre stories created by people with agendas, and refuse to acknowledge that the right to life includes the right to choose how life ends, and to deny that is to deny the basic rights of humanity. You absolutely refuse to see that the government has no place to mandate suffering. Why do you think the government should step in and demand people suffer? Why are you so pro-big-government?
    - wernercd 4y ago
      The problem isn't people not being able to end suffering... the problem is people being ended before time and people being ended because they are poor and the government is simply cost cutting. "created by people with agendas" and "MAID" is defended by people with agendas. Everyone has an agenda - even people like you that presumably want to "end suffering". "why do you think the government should step in and demand people suffer" Because anyone who trusts the government with the right to end peoples lives and ignores OBVIOUS problems with such power (IE: the stories about people with "agendas" - aka those who shouldn't be getting killed) is ignorant of governments abusing powers. "Why are you so pro-big-government?" I'm not pro big government... I'm anti-government killing people. I don't think they should have the right to cut costs by killing people who shouldn't be killed. Don't try to spin this as pro-big government... it's actually ANTI big government because I don't trust the government. If you do? You're ignorant of history - past and present.
      - msla 4y ago
        You're so pro-big-government you don't want people to decide for themselves when to end their lives. I can't hardly believe it.
        emodendroket 4y ago
        Not an especially convincing argument for those who do not see it as axiomatic that “big government” is in itself bad.
- ThunderSizzle 4y ago
  > thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering. > Making a case requires evidence Where's the evidence that (1) Californians specifically, (2) are experiencing extended suffering, and (3) what evidence exists that suffering specifically is unnecessary? I'm just pointing out dropping a comment like the first answer and defending it with the second is doing exactly what is being claimed -making a case without providing real evidence.
deleted 4y ago
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msla 4y ago

> Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? Because nobody's made that case. Making a case requires evidence. Not handwaving and appeals to movie plots. > We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair... As long as we're trading conspiracy theories, the person who reported that was paid off by the right wing to make MAID seem horrible, and therefore something that should be ended, and my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
The case is already out there. I read an article on cbc that was reporting some insane stuff around MAID, to the point of being scary: yes the government is trying to save money.
wernercd 4y ago
"Nobody's made the case" Tons of people are making the case. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanising-the-poor/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanisin... "Since then, things have only gotten worse. A woman in Ontario was forced into euthanasia because her housing benefits did not allow her to get better housing which didn’t aggravate her crippling allergies. Another disabled woman applied to die because she ‘simply cannot afford to keep on living’. Another sought euthanasia because Covid-related debt left her unable to pay for the treatment which kept her chronic pain bearable – under the present government, disabled Canadians got $600 in additional financial assistance during Covid; university students got $5,000." So again: Why isn't the take that Thousands are dying to soon to save money? "As long as we're trading conspiracy theories," Other than my "conspiracy" theory being main stream media reported and a simple statement backed by fact. Not your cockamamey bullshit: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-veterans-affairs-maid-counselling-1.6560136 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-vete... "According to the report, the veteran called VAC seeking support for PTSD when the employee brought up medical assistance in dying, or euthanasia, unprompted." Oh wait... that's the wrong one. That's not the Wheelchair one... hard to find the right one in the mountain of evidence. https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthanize-christine-gauthier/ https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthani... "A paraplegic former Canadian military member is ripping her government, which offered to euthanize her after she complained about delays having a wheelchair lift installed in her home." If main stream, reliable news sources are 'conspiracy theories' then I'm not sure what you consider real news. "my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does." Other than the fact that my "theory" has backing evidence... and yours is shit pulled out of your ass. You really need to learn what a conspiracy theory is and when real life evidence makes it not a theory.
- msla 4y ago
  Why are you so absurdly adamant about people not being able to end suffering? You dig up some bizarre stories created by people with agendas, and refuse to acknowledge that the right to life includes the right to choose how life ends, and to deny that is to deny the basic rights of humanity. You absolutely refuse to see that the government has no place to mandate suffering. Why do you think the government should step in and demand people suffer? Why are you so pro-big-government?
  - wernercd 4y ago
    The problem isn't people not being able to end suffering... the problem is people being ended before time and people being ended because they are poor and the government is simply cost cutting. "created by people with agendas" and "MAID" is defended by people with agendas. Everyone has an agenda - even people like you that presumably want to "end suffering". "why do you think the government should step in and demand people suffer" Because anyone who trusts the government with the right to end peoples lives and ignores OBVIOUS problems with such power (IE: the stories about people with "agendas" - aka those who shouldn't be getting killed) is ignorant of governments abusing powers. "Why are you so pro-big-government?" I'm not pro big government... I'm anti-government killing people. I don't think they should have the right to cut costs by killing people who shouldn't be killed. Don't try to spin this as pro-big government... it's actually ANTI big government because I don't trust the government. If you do? You're ignorant of history - past and present.
    - msla 4y ago
      You're so pro-big-government you don't want people to decide for themselves when to end their lives. I can't hardly believe it.
      - emodendroket 4y ago
        Not an especially convincing argument for those who do not see it as axiomatic that “big government” is in itself bad.
ThunderSizzle 4y ago
> thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering. > Making a case requires evidence Where's the evidence that (1) Californians specifically, (2) are experiencing extended suffering, and (3) what evidence exists that suffering specifically is unnecessary? I'm just pointing out dropping a comment like the first answer and defending it with the second is doing exactly what is being claimed -making a case without providing real evidence.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]