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I would like to stress that the gap I speak of is not about stupidity or competence in itself; instead it is about being oblivious to one's own incompetence. F

I would like to stress that the gap I speak of is not about stupidity or competence in itself; instead it is about being oblivious to one's own incompetence. For example, I think that people like Trump, Berlusconi, Cheney, etc. are not in the same class. They are certainly bad leaders, but largely because they are selfish grifters who care little about their country. On the other hand people like Cameron, Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Truss seem to really believe that they are destined to lead the country (to greatness) and that, for them at least, it "cannot be that hard". So I sense a real difference here, and introducing the "competence gap" was my way to try to make it precise. But maybe there is a better way to formulate it. Arrogance perhaps? (And of course such personalities are not unique to the UK, but I did find them more widespread there.)

asdadsdad 4y ago
Sorry, Trump cares little about his country? Say what you want of him, and he definitely has a big ego to say the least, but I can't think of a more patriotic world leader of late than him. In fact, he's rightly aligned with the nationalist trend in politics that Brexit can be argued to take part in. "America first", remember?
- Nursie 4y ago
  Trump cares about Trump, the rest is window-dressing.
PaulRobinson 4y ago
I want to be clear about the argument you're making, as I think this is where our difference arises. You think Trump, Berlusconi, and so on are selfish grifters but do not believe they are truly destined for greatness? And you think Cameron, Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Truss are _not_ selfish grifters but are in it for the "greatness"? I think you should do more research on both groups. Trump and Berlusconi (and many others I mentioned), seem to choose their actions based on self-interest fiscally and for their ego. They are over-confident in their ability to make good decisions because they feel they have been "chosen", and are "special". Their distaste for due process and the rule of law is evidence of this, I feel. But so are the British leaders. Go do some digging, find out how they made their money and built their relationships in Parliament. Find out about the Bullingdon club, find out about Rees-Mogg's money, find out about the Institute of Economic Affairs, and more. You'll find every single one of the British leaders you named had the exact same profile of grifting and ego-driven self-belief that Berlusconi, Bolsonaro, Trump, W. Bush, and others have shown. Your argument that there is something unique to Britain about this is weak to my mind. I can find identical behaviours of corruption, idiocy, grifting, ego and incompetence in recent history of every G20 country, every NATO member, every EU state, every democracy. Writing this makes me feel cynical, but the good news is that there is plenty of evidence of competence and "greater good" style leaders around everywhere too - in Britain, as much as anywhere else.
- prof-dr-ir 4y ago
  What would be a politician's ideal outcome of a stint in politics? I think that Trump and Berlusconi and Cheney and Netanyahu all aim for maximal wealth (and minimal imprisonment) for them and their buddies - and they do very well on this front! So are you sure they are unable to make "good decisions" from that perspective? On the other hand, I think that people like Macron and Merkel, but also May, Truss and probably even Johnson, are more motivated by their legacy and truly would like to improve the status quo of their country - and they believe that that is their path to greatness. So I think this sets apart the UK politicians from the "real" grifters. But at the same time I think they are also easily distinguished from people like Macron and Merkel and even Von der Leyen, because the British leaders are just so spectacularly bad at it. Starting at least with Cameron's referendum decision we have witnessed a remarkable sequence of massive unforced errors by UK politicians, the likes of which I have not seen in other "Western" countries or the EU (despite your insistence to the contrary). Maybe "terrible governing by people who nevertheless care" captures it well. So I guess where you see "evil" I see "haplessness" as a defining factor among UK leaders. A competence gap was my way to explain its origins.
  - PaulRobinson 4y ago
    If you think the referendum was an unforced error, I’m not sure you realise the factors that led to it. Grifting writ large for all the players, including Cameron and Osborne, but especially Rees-Mogg who was forcing the hand somewhat. I don’t think they’re any more or less money oriented than others or any more or less hapless. Even Johnson was about the wealth, the Churchill allusions were a sideshow.

asdadsdad 4y ago

Sorry, Trump cares little about his country? Say what you want of him, and he definitely has a big ego to say the least, but I can't think of a more patriotic world leader of late than him. In fact, he's rightly aligned with the nationalist trend in politics that Brexit can be argued to take part in. "America first", remember?

Nursie 4y ago
Trump cares about Trump, the rest is window-dressing.

PaulRobinson 4y ago

I want to be clear about the argument you're making, as I think this is where our difference arises. You think Trump, Berlusconi, and so on are selfish grifters but do not believe they are truly destined for greatness? And you think Cameron, Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Truss are _not_ selfish grifters but are in it for the "greatness"? I think you should do more research on both groups. Trump and Berlusconi (and many others I mentioned), seem to choose their actions based on self-interest fiscally and for their ego. They are over-confident in their ability to make good decisions because they feel they have been "chosen", and are "special". Their distaste for due process and the rule of law is evidence of this, I feel. But so are the British leaders. Go do some digging, find out how they made their money and built their relationships in Parliament. Find out about the Bullingdon club, find out about Rees-Mogg's money, find out about the Institute of Economic Affairs, and more. You'll find every single one of the British leaders you named had the exact same profile of grifting and ego-driven self-belief that Berlusconi, Bolsonaro, Trump, W. Bush, and others have shown. Your argument that there is something unique to Britain about this is weak to my mind. I can find identical behaviours of corruption, idiocy, grifting, ego and incompetence in recent history of every G20 country, every NATO member, every EU state, every democracy. Writing this makes me feel cynical, but the good news is that there is plenty of evidence of competence and "greater good" style leaders around everywhere too - in Britain, as much as anywhere else.

prof-dr-ir 4y ago
What would be a politician's ideal outcome of a stint in politics? I think that Trump and Berlusconi and Cheney and Netanyahu all aim for maximal wealth (and minimal imprisonment) for them and their buddies - and they do very well on this front! So are you sure they are unable to make "good decisions" from that perspective? On the other hand, I think that people like Macron and Merkel, but also May, Truss and probably even Johnson, are more motivated by their legacy and truly would like to improve the status quo of their country - and they believe that that is their path to greatness. So I think this sets apart the UK politicians from the "real" grifters. But at the same time I think they are also easily distinguished from people like Macron and Merkel and even Von der Leyen, because the British leaders are just so spectacularly bad at it. Starting at least with Cameron's referendum decision we have witnessed a remarkable sequence of massive unforced errors by UK politicians, the likes of which I have not seen in other "Western" countries or the EU (despite your insistence to the contrary). Maybe "terrible governing by people who nevertheless care" captures it well. So I guess where you see "evil" I see "haplessness" as a defining factor among UK leaders. A competence gap was my way to explain its origins.
- PaulRobinson 4y ago
  If you think the referendum was an unforced error, I’m not sure you realise the factors that led to it. Grifting writ large for all the players, including Cameron and Osborne, but especially Rees-Mogg who was forcing the hand somewhat. I don’t think they’re any more or less money oriented than others or any more or less hapless. Even Johnson was about the wealth, the Churchill allusions were a sideshow.