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I believe this is a common trend through the west. Here in Canada the current Federal Liberals won the last two election with about 30% of the vote which when y

by euix 4y ago

I believe this is a common trend through the west. Here in Canada the current Federal Liberals won the last two election with about 30% of the vote which when you take into account how many people even vote amounts to something like ~5 million people in a country close to 40 million. The kind of overarching policies and rhetoric coming out of government is widely disproportionate to that level of mandate.

timbit42 4y ago
They had to coalition with another party to form a government with over 50% of the seats. It's more democratic than straight FPTP.
mymythisisthis 4y ago
The Liberals are in a coalition with the NDP, combined the two parties received a majority of the popular vote. A better example would be Doug Ford in Ontario. Ford's Conservatives received only 41% of the popular vote but took 67% of the seats. The First Past The Post System needs to be retired, it is anti-democratic. Either run-offs or a ranked ballot voting system would be better.
- dogcomplex 4y ago
  Approval voting or proportional representation would be better, but sure
wazoox 4y ago
Yup. In France Macron hold total power with less than 30% of voters and less than 30% of good opinion in polls. His "pension reform" has everyone against it, the unions, all political parties but his own, even the employers association, but it will be enforced anyway. Democracy is dead, and it even began to smell.
- SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
  Curious to see what HN's opinion on mandatory voting is. We have that in Australia and the sense is that it tends to dull the extreme fringes of the party platforms since they need to broadly appeal to the mainstream.
  - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
    It is hard to disentangle the temperament of the populace from the voting system. The UK and all former settler colonies (Canada, Australia, New Zealand) all have very stable politics and that generally appeal to the median voter. None of them really have any extreme political incidents in living memory that I can think of. (maybe a few extreme incidents by their own standards but on a global standard they are still tame)
    - throwaway2037 4y ago
      "former settler colonies". US and South Africa do not count? How about Latin America vis-a-vis Spain and Portugal?
      - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
        I thought it was implied but I meant former settler colonies of the UK specifically. The USA could be included and does have overall remarkably stable politics compared to most of the world. I didn't include it due to the length of time it has been separate from the UK, however there was substantial emigration from the British Isles to the USA in the 19th century with the settling of the West (more British went to the USA in the 19th century than Canada/Australia/NZ/South Africa combined and served as a 2nd large wave of Anglofying influence on the nation). I would lump it in with the other nations I mention as having overall extreme stable politics and high adherence to political norms that can be broadly characterised as the "Anglo model of politics". South Africa is a bit of a unique case. Due to the Apartheid system it never had any of the sort of political stability that characterises the politics of the other nations mentioned. The political culture of Spain/Portugal is massively different from the UK (especially at the time of the colonisation of the Americas) and the model of politics in the nations of South America is very different as a result.
- gernb 4y ago
  > Democracy is dead, and it even began to smell. what's your solution?
  - wazoox 4y ago
    We need better representation, and for instance designate Senators from random draw from the voters pool to make it a proposition force. Also we need to dismantle most of the constitutional changes of the past 30 years, which created several layers of pretend democratic assemblies (city, metropolis, department, region) that nobody understands nor care about, and are only useful to feed a large crowd of professional politicians. And most important, we must dismantle the rampant control of these by the state through the nationalisation of taxes. Almost all local taxation which used to be defined and voted by the city councils, departmental assemblies etc have been taken over by the state, which nominally redistributes the money but keeps control of it, effectively killing all local democratic processes and politics.

by euix 4y ago

timbit42 4y ago

They had to coalition with another party to form a government with over 50% of the seats. It's more democratic than straight FPTP.

mymythisisthis 4y ago

The Liberals are in a coalition with the NDP, combined the two parties received a majority of the popular vote. A better example would be Doug Ford in Ontario. Ford's Conservatives received only 41% of the popular vote but took 67% of the seats. The First Past The Post System needs to be retired, it is anti-democratic. Either run-offs or a ranked ballot voting system would be better.

dogcomplex 4y ago
Approval voting or proportional representation would be better, but sure

wazoox 4y ago

Yup. In France Macron hold total power with less than 30% of voters and less than 30% of good opinion in polls. His "pension reform" has everyone against it, the unions, all political parties but his own, even the employers association, but it will be enforced anyway. Democracy is dead, and it even began to smell.

SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
Curious to see what HN's opinion on mandatory voting is. We have that in Australia and the sense is that it tends to dull the extreme fringes of the party platforms since they need to broadly appeal to the mainstream.
- TapWaterBandit 4y ago
  It is hard to disentangle the temperament of the populace from the voting system. The UK and all former settler colonies (Canada, Australia, New Zealand) all have very stable politics and that generally appeal to the median voter. None of them really have any extreme political incidents in living memory that I can think of. (maybe a few extreme incidents by their own standards but on a global standard they are still tame)
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    "former settler colonies". US and South Africa do not count? How about Latin America vis-a-vis Spain and Portugal?
    - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
      I thought it was implied but I meant former settler colonies of the UK specifically. The USA could be included and does have overall remarkably stable politics compared to most of the world. I didn't include it due to the length of time it has been separate from the UK, however there was substantial emigration from the British Isles to the USA in the 19th century with the settling of the West (more British went to the USA in the 19th century than Canada/Australia/NZ/South Africa combined and served as a 2nd large wave of Anglofying influence on the nation). I would lump it in with the other nations I mention as having overall extreme stable politics and high adherence to political norms that can be broadly characterised as the "Anglo model of politics". South Africa is a bit of a unique case. Due to the Apartheid system it never had any of the sort of political stability that characterises the politics of the other nations mentioned. The political culture of Spain/Portugal is massively different from the UK (especially at the time of the colonisation of the Americas) and the model of politics in the nations of South America is very different as a result.
gernb 4y ago
> Democracy is dead, and it even began to smell. what's your solution?
- wazoox 4y ago
  We need better representation, and for instance designate Senators from random draw from the voters pool to make it a proposition force. Also we need to dismantle most of the constitutional changes of the past 30 years, which created several layers of pretend democratic assemblies (city, metropolis, department, region) that nobody understands nor care about, and are only useful to feed a large crowd of professional politicians. And most important, we must dismantle the rampant control of these by the state through the nationalisation of taxes. Almost all local taxation which used to be defined and voted by the city councils, departmental assemblies etc have been taken over by the state, which nominally redistributes the money but keeps control of it, effectively killing all local democratic processes and politics.