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> The problem with Blair was that he lost the right on EU/immigration and lost the left on everything else Yes, that's a good point, but it's not only the righ

> The problem with Blair was that he lost the right on EU/immigration and lost the left on everything else Yes, that's a good point, but it's not only the right. All the traditionally Labour constituencies in the North (but not only) which voted for Brexit did so largely because of immigration. Immigration control is not traditionally right wing only. The left has also been in favour of control and restrictions in order to protect workers' wages.

astrange 4y ago
Their wages are low because they're British and live in a failing country. Immigration raises wages; more people = better economy. That's why every other Anglo country is doing better than them. And has food that isn't brown slop.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  No, immigration has kept unskilled workers' wages low. That's why businesses have been keen and workers have had enough. That's not specific to the UK, and is the usual effect of large immigration.
  - astrange 4y ago
    Immigration doesn’t lower wages. Telling people this usually doesn’t convince them because they just want an excuse to complain about immigrants, but nevertheless it’s true. https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/why-immigration-doesnt-reduce-wages https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/why-immigration-doesnt-red... In particular Australia’s population is 1/3rd immigrants. Australia’s minimum and median wages are both significantly higher than the UK. Does that mean there are so many immigrants they’re taking each others jobs instead?
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      There's a very big assumption in your claim, which is that immigration is balanced among 'social classes', skills, jobs,etc. In that case, indeed overall demand grows along with overall supply. Australia has an immigration system aimed at achieving that. Things do not work out so great if immigration isn't balanced. In the UK there has been a huge influx of unskilled or low skilled workers from Eastern Europe that has put a big dampener on wages at the low end of the spectrum. One of the reasons the UK has a productivity issue is that cheap labour.
      - astrange 4y ago
        The papers I linked are empirical evidence, not assumptions. There’s two specifically on the UK that find no evidence of this. They also find that skilled immigration systems don’t always work, because all immigrants tend to be unusually highly educated anyway, but also significantly downskill the jobs they choose after arriving. So you’d expect them to always compete with low end natives, but in fact they don’t because they mainly compete with other immigrants instead. And “compete” isn’t how labor works anyway, since all workers are also customers.
        mytailorisrich 4y ago
        "Negative effect at low-end of spectrum", which is what I wrote... > because all immigrants tend to be unusually highly educated anyway That's obviously not true.

astrange 4y ago

Their wages are low because they're British and live in a failing country. Immigration raises wages; more people = better economy. That's why every other Anglo country is doing better than them. And has food that isn't brown slop.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
No, immigration has kept unskilled workers' wages low. That's why businesses have been keen and workers have had enough. That's not specific to the UK, and is the usual effect of large immigration.
- astrange 4y ago
  Immigration doesn’t lower wages. Telling people this usually doesn’t convince them because they just want an excuse to complain about immigrants, but nevertheless it’s true. https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/why-immigration-doesnt-reduce-wages https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/why-immigration-doesnt-red... In particular Australia’s population is 1/3rd immigrants. Australia’s minimum and median wages are both significantly higher than the UK. Does that mean there are so many immigrants they’re taking each others jobs instead?
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    There's a very big assumption in your claim, which is that immigration is balanced among 'social classes', skills, jobs,etc. In that case, indeed overall demand grows along with overall supply. Australia has an immigration system aimed at achieving that. Things do not work out so great if immigration isn't balanced. In the UK there has been a huge influx of unskilled or low skilled workers from Eastern Europe that has put a big dampener on wages at the low end of the spectrum. One of the reasons the UK has a productivity issue is that cheap labour.
    - astrange 4y ago
      The papers I linked are empirical evidence, not assumptions. There’s two specifically on the UK that find no evidence of this. They also find that skilled immigration systems don’t always work, because all immigrants tend to be unusually highly educated anyway, but also significantly downskill the jobs they choose after arriving. So you’d expect them to always compete with low end natives, but in fact they don’t because they mainly compete with other immigrants instead. And “compete” isn’t how labor works anyway, since all workers are also customers.
      - mytailorisrich 4y ago
        "Negative effect at low-end of spectrum", which is what I wrote... > because all immigrants tend to be unusually highly educated anyway That's obviously not true.