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Nothing is stopping anyone from forming a worker coop in the US. Yet few do. Have you ever considered this?

scruple 4y ago
I have, yes, and I've gone as far as finding friends and former colleagues who would be interested in joining me. Unfortunately health insurance is tied to employment in this country and we all have families. The uncertainty in that regard leaves it a non-starter for people in our situation. At least for the time being.
- nightski 4y ago
  I'm not sure I follow on how that would stop you from forming a worker co-op. Almost all businesses who have full time employees pay for health insurance. Are you implying a co-op would make less revenue and therefore could not provide its employees insurance?
  - azemetre 4y ago
    Businesses get way different insurance rates than a single individual (or 12 individuals). It costs me $240 a month for full health coverage ($1000 deductible), dentistry, and eye from my current employer; for me to get something equivalent outside this company would cost me $3,000 to $5,000 a month. I can't afford that plus rent, plus energy, plus food. Not all businesses are equal, not all benefits are equal. When I worked in a call center the only insurance that wasn't pure garbage cost me $300 a paycheck. Sorry but it's expensive being poor in America.
    - nightski 4y ago
      Yeah I agree with all of that but I don't see how it is relevant to the discussion. A worker co-op should be able to provide health insurance to it's employees the same as any other business. The fact that it is worker-owned shouldn't change that at all.
      - azemetre 4y ago
        Have you ever tried to start a business? Myself and five of my friends simply can't afford that level of health insurance, even with our resources pooled together. Just because you say the word "business" doesn't make insurance cheaper for small players.
jtolmar 4y ago
A highly successful worker coop leads to a bunch of people with comfortable lives and steady jobs. A highly successful privately owned company leads to a handful of people with a ton of money and free time, which they can use to found other privately owned companies.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago
  At least with startups, are most founded by affluent people with free capital and time, or by those who sign a deal with VC? Afaik YC founders aren't thousands of bored millionaires, they're average middle class people with a college degree who quit their jobs to live on their seed investment for a few years, and share the spoils in the end with their employees and investors if the project succeeds. Can you get away without initial starting capital if your startup has a very low chance of success? You need someone to be willing to eat the 99% risk of failure in exchange for proportionally high returns. I imagine the same problem is much ameliorated if you were opening a pizza shop, a daycare, or a hair salon, where the business is more predictable?
scarmig 4y ago
1) That was a statement of arguments about whether or not a worker co-op driven economy is superior to labor unions, from a pro-labor perspective. Stating an argument doesn't mean endorsement of it; that's the entire point of steel manning. 2) To the extent I buy either argument, I don't think it's subtle that my sympathies lie with the criticisms of an economy of worker driven co-ops.

I have, yes, and I've gone as far as finding friends and former colleagues who would be interested in joining me. Unfortunately health insurance is tied to employment in this country and we all have families. The uncertainty in that regard leaves it a non-starter for people in our situation. At least for the time being.

nightski 4y ago
I'm not sure I follow on how that would stop you from forming a worker co-op. Almost all businesses who have full time employees pay for health insurance. Are you implying a co-op would make less revenue and therefore could not provide its employees insurance?
- azemetre 4y ago
  Businesses get way different insurance rates than a single individual (or 12 individuals). It costs me $240 a month for full health coverage ($1000 deductible), dentistry, and eye from my current employer; for me to get something equivalent outside this company would cost me $3,000 to $5,000 a month. I can't afford that plus rent, plus energy, plus food. Not all businesses are equal, not all benefits are equal. When I worked in a call center the only insurance that wasn't pure garbage cost me $300 a paycheck. Sorry but it's expensive being poor in America.
  - nightski 4y ago
    Yeah I agree with all of that but I don't see how it is relevant to the discussion. A worker co-op should be able to provide health insurance to it's employees the same as any other business. The fact that it is worker-owned shouldn't change that at all.
    - azemetre 4y ago
      Have you ever tried to start a business? Myself and five of my friends simply can't afford that level of health insurance, even with our resources pooled together. Just because you say the word "business" doesn't make insurance cheaper for small players.

jtolmar 4y ago

A highly successful worker coop leads to a bunch of people with comfortable lives and steady jobs. A highly successful privately owned company leads to a handful of people with a ton of money and free time, which they can use to found other privately owned companies.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago
At least with startups, are most founded by affluent people with free capital and time, or by those who sign a deal with VC? Afaik YC founders aren't thousands of bored millionaires, they're average middle class people with a college degree who quit their jobs to live on their seed investment for a few years, and share the spoils in the end with their employees and investors if the project succeeds. Can you get away without initial starting capital if your startup has a very low chance of success? You need someone to be willing to eat the 99% risk of failure in exchange for proportionally high returns. I imagine the same problem is much ameliorated if you were opening a pizza shop, a daycare, or a hair salon, where the business is more predictable?

scarmig 4y ago

1) That was a statement of arguments about whether or not a worker co-op driven economy is superior to labor unions, from a pro-labor perspective. Stating an argument doesn't mean endorsement of it; that's the entire point of steel manning. 2) To the extent I buy either argument, I don't think it's subtle that my sympathies lie with the criticisms of an economy of worker driven co-ops.