5 ms·

The great crypto crisis is upon us

15 points by labrador 4y ago

labrador 4y ago
https://archive.vn/UT3Ua https://archive.vn/UT3Ua
PaulHoule 4y ago
Not sure. People haven’t lost enough money or felt enough pain for there to be the true despair which will cast it into the cold for a generation. Not yet.
pjkundert 4y ago
A great monetary crisis is upon us, indeed. Crypto is going to be a tool of defence for many, especially now that the tide has gone out, and we see who’s swimming naked. When the petrodollar collapse proceeds, as it must, then we’ll see how this is actually going to play out.
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago
  Why does every cryptobro sound like a mystic?
  - firstSpeaker 4y ago
    Because they get the same talking point, and sort of repeat it.
  - haswell 4y ago
    The crypto community displays many traits that are very religious in nature. Not just "religious", as in someone's preferred computing ecosystem, but religious in a far more literal sense fueled by blind belief in something greater than oneself. Coins are churches and founders are pastors. To keep "believing" in crypto at this stage requires something approaching religious devotion.
    - survirtual 4y ago
      Nonsense. Putting trust in monetary policy founded upon mathematics and physics (Bitcoin) is hardly religious. Putting trust in a monetary policy founded upon a bankers ballsack (USD) most definitely is, however. Bitcoin crystallizes energy / work into value in a mathematically predictable way, that is fully auditable, with no humans able to manipulate minting to their own benefit. You put in the work and crystallize value and gain, or you don’t and gain nothing. It doesn’t matter to the protocol. What you can’t do is manipulate public sentiment with wars, crisis, and corporate influence to control the monetary supply and policy. You can’t install your little buddies into privately owned “Federal Reserve Banks” which somehow have managed to control the monetary system without being elected or directly accountable to the public. And this is just scratching the surface of the lunacy of legacy systems. Who are the real cultists? Those born into a system of servitude following the charismatic allure of leaders and the rigidity of traditions with USD? A system of censorship, centralized unaccountable, unsupervised, unauditable, “trust me bro” mechanics? Or those who, painfully, broke free of the populace and placed their trust and confidence in value bound to mathematics and physics? The first step to seeing reality is you gotta take your head out of the sand.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        Hallelujah brother! preach! /s
        survirtual 4y ago
        I hope that someday you are able to escape the confines of your limits and servitude. There is a vast universe beyond this tiny spec of dust called Earth.
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        > There is a vast universe beyond this tiny spec of dust called Earth. And you say that this celestial sphere is full of space cryptocurrency?
  - acdha 4y ago
    They’ve staked their personal financial success, and often professional credibility, on other people giving them lots of money in exchange for easily-replaced random numbers. The only way that works is if they can continually recruit buyers. The greatest challenge here is a prospective customer thinking analytically about the benefits because for most people the answer is either zero or negative. If you present it in this quasi-mystical form the claims are conveniently resistant to analysis since they rely on things like conspiracies or massive societal shifts, and keeping things emotional is a good way to get buyers to overrule their critical thinking skills. It’s the same thing you see for related industries like goldbugs or preppers, only this time with billions of VC dollars giving much better production values.
    - landemva 4y ago
      The VC backed chains Solana and Helium do look like they are trending to zero. ETH and BTC were not VC backed, and seem to have established some product-market fit. Lots of dev activity on ethereum codebase.
  - rvz 4y ago
    No different to the typical AI bro, grifting and selling you their snake oil.
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  I’m old enough to remember that people have been predicting hyperinflation and the collapse of the dollar since the 70s. Maybe it will really happen this time, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
otagekki 4y ago
So doesn't crypto fail the exact same way as traditional banks did in the US before deposits got FDIC-insured?
- FlacoJones 4y ago
  Centralized exchanges do absolutely. No guarantees on deposits beyond a consumer Terms and Conditions check box. Decentralized exchanges with proofs of reserves on chain less so, e.g. MakerDAO's over-collateralized stablecoin called DAI: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1316928/dai-reserves-breakdown/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1316928/dai-reserves-bre...
- nytesky 4y ago
  Decentralized crypto fails more quietly and spread out overt time as people are hacked or simply forget and lose their private keys. Being your own digital bank is high risk, and most people barely can keep their email secure. I can’t believe even among HN none of us had to use a password recovery option at one point?
FlacoJones 4y ago
Closing line with the usual FUD around decentralization as a scary thing - even though it was centralization and privileged actors at the center of that centralization that has caused every major CEX collapse. If we think an occasional CEX collapse is bad, the financial surveillance and political manipulation that would occur under a CBDC scheme is far more damaging to freedom and financial security in the long run. Be vigilant of articles that slip in advertisements for CBDC - they are quickly becoming a propaganda weapon. "A more promising approach is through central bank digital currencies that operate within the broader digital monetary system. This is an approach that builds on the trust embedded in central bank money, and could serve public interest in a future monetary system(opens a new window). The technology benefits flow to real world economic activities rather than just other types of crypto. The economic benefits of decentralisation should also be scrutinised more effectively. We are now seeing what happens when an industry rests simply on an article of faith."
- secretsatan 4y ago
  Have you got any tips for how regular people can deal with the decentralized system without losing their shirts? Just using the acronym FUD everytime someone critises crypto is not an argument
  - robcohen 4y ago
    Which decentralized system are you referring to which left people without their shirts? FTX was highly centralized, and not even purporting to be otherwise.
    - braingenious 4y ago
      Great question! What tips do you have to share?
  - landemva 4y ago
    Quickly: Download wallet Exodus for PC or install Metamask wallet plugin for web browser or install Brave web browser and use integrated wallet. Advanced learners can later download ethereum or bitcoin open source software and create wallet on command line. Back up private key and seed phrases. Write them down and seal into an envelope. Back up these secrets now! Have someone send you crypto to your public key. Or get a kraken/coinbase account to buy some and then send to your wallet public key. This gets the crypto off the exchange. Start small.
pfoof 4y ago
Crypto is not falling, just the worthless artificial exchange rates

15 points by labrador 4y ago

https://archive.vn/UT3Ua https://archive.vn/UT3Ua

Not sure. People haven’t lost enough money or felt enough pain for there to be the true despair which will cast it into the cold for a generation. Not yet.

pjkundert 4y ago

A great monetary crisis is upon us, indeed. Crypto is going to be a tool of defence for many, especially now that the tide has gone out, and we see who’s swimming naked. When the petrodollar collapse proceeds, as it must, then we’ll see how this is actually going to play out.

rocket_surgeron 4y ago
Why does every cryptobro sound like a mystic?
- firstSpeaker 4y ago
  Because they get the same talking point, and sort of repeat it.
- haswell 4y ago
  The crypto community displays many traits that are very religious in nature. Not just "religious", as in someone's preferred computing ecosystem, but religious in a far more literal sense fueled by blind belief in something greater than oneself. Coins are churches and founders are pastors. To keep "believing" in crypto at this stage requires something approaching religious devotion.
  - survirtual 4y ago
    Nonsense. Putting trust in monetary policy founded upon mathematics and physics (Bitcoin) is hardly religious. Putting trust in a monetary policy founded upon a bankers ballsack (USD) most definitely is, however. Bitcoin crystallizes energy / work into value in a mathematically predictable way, that is fully auditable, with no humans able to manipulate minting to their own benefit. You put in the work and crystallize value and gain, or you don’t and gain nothing. It doesn’t matter to the protocol. What you can’t do is manipulate public sentiment with wars, crisis, and corporate influence to control the monetary supply and policy. You can’t install your little buddies into privately owned “Federal Reserve Banks” which somehow have managed to control the monetary system without being elected or directly accountable to the public. And this is just scratching the surface of the lunacy of legacy systems. Who are the real cultists? Those born into a system of servitude following the charismatic allure of leaders and the rigidity of traditions with USD? A system of censorship, centralized unaccountable, unsupervised, unauditable, “trust me bro” mechanics? Or those who, painfully, broke free of the populace and placed their trust and confidence in value bound to mathematics and physics? The first step to seeing reality is you gotta take your head out of the sand.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      Hallelujah brother! preach! /s
      - survirtual 4y ago
        I hope that someday you are able to escape the confines of your limits and servitude. There is a vast universe beyond this tiny spec of dust called Earth.
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        > There is a vast universe beyond this tiny spec of dust called Earth. And you say that this celestial sphere is full of space cryptocurrency?
- acdha 4y ago
  They’ve staked their personal financial success, and often professional credibility, on other people giving them lots of money in exchange for easily-replaced random numbers. The only way that works is if they can continually recruit buyers. The greatest challenge here is a prospective customer thinking analytically about the benefits because for most people the answer is either zero or negative. If you present it in this quasi-mystical form the claims are conveniently resistant to analysis since they rely on things like conspiracies or massive societal shifts, and keeping things emotional is a good way to get buyers to overrule their critical thinking skills. It’s the same thing you see for related industries like goldbugs or preppers, only this time with billions of VC dollars giving much better production values.
  - landemva 4y ago
    The VC backed chains Solana and Helium do look like they are trending to zero. ETH and BTC were not VC backed, and seem to have established some product-market fit. Lots of dev activity on ethereum codebase.
- rvz 4y ago
  No different to the typical AI bro, grifting and selling you their snake oil.
amanaplanacanal 4y ago
I’m old enough to remember that people have been predicting hyperinflation and the collapse of the dollar since the 70s. Maybe it will really happen this time, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

otagekki 4y ago

So doesn't crypto fail the exact same way as traditional banks did in the US before deposits got FDIC-insured?

FlacoJones 4y ago
Centralized exchanges do absolutely. No guarantees on deposits beyond a consumer Terms and Conditions check box. Decentralized exchanges with proofs of reserves on chain less so, e.g. MakerDAO's over-collateralized stablecoin called DAI: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1316928/dai-reserves-breakdown/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1316928/dai-reserves-bre...
nytesky 4y ago
Decentralized crypto fails more quietly and spread out overt time as people are hacked or simply forget and lose their private keys. Being your own digital bank is high risk, and most people barely can keep their email secure. I can’t believe even among HN none of us had to use a password recovery option at one point?

FlacoJones 4y ago

Closing line with the usual FUD around decentralization as a scary thing - even though it was centralization and privileged actors at the center of that centralization that has caused every major CEX collapse. If we think an occasional CEX collapse is bad, the financial surveillance and political manipulation that would occur under a CBDC scheme is far more damaging to freedom and financial security in the long run. Be vigilant of articles that slip in advertisements for CBDC - they are quickly becoming a propaganda weapon. "A more promising approach is through central bank digital currencies that operate within the broader digital monetary system. This is an approach that builds on the trust embedded in central bank money, and could serve public interest in a future monetary system(opens a new window). The technology benefits flow to real world economic activities rather than just other types of crypto. The economic benefits of decentralisation should also be scrutinised more effectively. We are now seeing what happens when an industry rests simply on an article of faith."

secretsatan 4y ago
Have you got any tips for how regular people can deal with the decentralized system without losing their shirts? Just using the acronym FUD everytime someone critises crypto is not an argument
- robcohen 4y ago
  Which decentralized system are you referring to which left people without their shirts? FTX was highly centralized, and not even purporting to be otherwise.
  - braingenious 4y ago
    Great question! What tips do you have to share?
- landemva 4y ago
  Quickly: Download wallet Exodus for PC or install Metamask wallet plugin for web browser or install Brave web browser and use integrated wallet. Advanced learners can later download ethereum or bitcoin open source software and create wallet on command line. Back up private key and seed phrases. Write them down and seal into an envelope. Back up these secrets now! Have someone send you crypto to your public key. Or get a kraken/coinbase account to buy some and then send to your wallet public key. This gets the crypto off the exchange. Start small.

pfoof 4y ago

Crypto is not falling, just the worthless artificial exchange rates