4 ms·

> Even if you trust Telegram's e2e it's not on by default. I have not seen anyone postin any reason to not trust their end-to-end-encryption, so this shortens

> Even if you trust Telegram's e2e it's not on by default. I have not seen anyone postin any reason to not trust their end-to-end-encryption, so this shortens to a criticisms of point-to-point-encryption, which is (abd I'm feeling generous here) as about as useful as criticism of postcards. Note, I'm not going after you but after the HN tradition of trashing Telegram.

throwaway290 4y ago
Thanks for clarification. I don't care about the tradition, it is my personal distrust. There's no visibility into the organization, they struggle for money, if FSB comes after them or their relatives in Russia with a rubber hose I don't see why they don't cooperate. It doesn't require breaking e2e either to make an impact, since no one I know uses secret chats on the regular anyway
throwaway290 4y ago
> any reason to not trust their end-to-end-encryption Durov claiming in 2014 to assist Russian government in fighting 'extremism' (we all know what it means) is enough for me. I couldn't find any debunking, clarification or walking back those words.
- eitland 4y ago
  Maybe some clarification: Telegram has said that they cooperate with authorities almost everywhere when it comes to open groups and channels. This means terrorist groups like ISIS/Daesh gets taken down. As for closed groups I think they claim they don't have access and police have to get someone on the inside. As for cooperating with Russian authorities in particular, Telegram has a history of open confrontation with Russian authorities, and for a long time had to maintain a proxy network for Russian residents. Today we also see that both Russians and Ukrainians use Telegram to reach out, but I suspect at least Ukrainians use something else between themselves.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    They had a confrontation where Russian government blocked Telegram until they give access. Then later lo and behold they unblocked Telegram with the above statement by Durov. I don't see how it's too uncharitable of an interpretation of those events that I have. That Russians and Ukrainians use Telegram is the exact issue here! Tons of my fellow Russians and I imagine most Ukrainians use Telegram to exchange statements that literally make them extremists or just criminals in the eyes of Russian gov, the very gov Durov declared collaboration with to get unblocked in the country where TG has the most users, they do it every day and without the impaired secret chats feature.
    - eitland 4y ago
      > they do it every day and without the impaired secret chats feature. How do you think the secret chat is impaired?
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        Secret chats are inconsistent across devices, lack features like message preview in notifications, can't unsend messages, entire chat histories are lost, the list goes on.

throwaway290 4y ago

Thanks for clarification. I don't care about the tradition, it is my personal distrust. There's no visibility into the organization, they struggle for money, if FSB comes after them or their relatives in Russia with a rubber hose I don't see why they don't cooperate. It doesn't require breaking e2e either to make an impact, since no one I know uses secret chats on the regular anyway

throwaway290 4y ago

> any reason to not trust their end-to-end-encryption Durov claiming in 2014 to assist Russian government in fighting 'extremism' (we all know what it means) is enough for me. I couldn't find any debunking, clarification or walking back those words.

eitland 4y ago
Maybe some clarification: Telegram has said that they cooperate with authorities almost everywhere when it comes to open groups and channels. This means terrorist groups like ISIS/Daesh gets taken down. As for closed groups I think they claim they don't have access and police have to get someone on the inside. As for cooperating with Russian authorities in particular, Telegram has a history of open confrontation with Russian authorities, and for a long time had to maintain a proxy network for Russian residents. Today we also see that both Russians and Ukrainians use Telegram to reach out, but I suspect at least Ukrainians use something else between themselves.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  They had a confrontation where Russian government blocked Telegram until they give access. Then later lo and behold they unblocked Telegram with the above statement by Durov. I don't see how it's too uncharitable of an interpretation of those events that I have. That Russians and Ukrainians use Telegram is the exact issue here! Tons of my fellow Russians and I imagine most Ukrainians use Telegram to exchange statements that literally make them extremists or just criminals in the eyes of Russian gov, the very gov Durov declared collaboration with to get unblocked in the country where TG has the most users, they do it every day and without the impaired secret chats feature.
  - eitland 4y ago
    > they do it every day and without the impaired secret chats feature. How do you think the secret chat is impaired?
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      Secret chats are inconsistent across devices, lack features like message preview in notifications, can't unsend messages, entire chat histories are lost, the list goes on.