9 ms·

> Why did I deserve to make more money than a teacher or a nurse? prices are largely based on supply and demand, not some vague notion of "deserve"

jessehattabaugh 4y ago
> prices are largely based on supply and demand Then we'd better unionize before AI starts doing all the easy stuff
- missedthecue 4y ago
  Preserving inefficiencies for the sake of extracting money is called rent seeking.
  - mushbino 4y ago
    Rent seeking is collecting money while adding no economic value. Like landlords.
    - missedthecue 4y ago
      Unions don't add economic value, hence why employers don't like them. The way they secure higher pay is by going on strike, not by offering more production or value.
      - mushbino 4y ago
        Unions provide training, good healthcare, and safety, which very much add economic value. Employers typically have the full force of market forces to pay as little as possible. Collectivisation is the workers only means to advocate for themselves.
    - surement 4y ago
      if you think that then buy a house instead of renting
      - mushbino 4y ago
        Let's throw in a yacht as well. Why would anyone not get one of those too?
    - Jensson 4y ago
      If an AI can do your job then you add no economic value, you are just collecting rent by preventing an AI from replacing you.
- fallingknife 4y ago
  How would unionizing prevent you from being replaced by a machine? Striking isn't a threat when you not being there is what the company is going for anyway.
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    Automation is not instant, and if the clock is between “implement AI correctly to automate the work” and “run out of money because you have no workers” a strike is still effective.
cycomanic 4y ago
If they would be based on supply and demand shouldn't nurses salaries gone through the roof recently? In every country I read the news shortage of nurses (and teachers to a lesser degree) is a huge topic and many places are badly understaffed. So why did their salaries not increase dramtically?
- willcipriano 4y ago
  They did, in the US at least[0]. Just not for the saps who signaled any sort of loyalty to the company, those people got hosed. Nurses need to adopt the "f you pay me" attitude the hospital administration has, doing things like working without protective gear is a great way to tell your boss that you will accept anything he does to you. [0]https://khn.org/news/highly-paid-traveling-nurses-fill-staffing-shortages-during-covid-pandemic/ https://khn.org/news/highly-paid-traveling-nurses-fill-staff...
berniedurfee 4y ago
Would the world be a better place if supply and demand weren’t the only factors in the compensation equation?
- surement 4y ago
  what's the alternative?
  - berniedurfee 4y ago
    I don’t have a reasonable answer. Though I think some element of universal compassion would be nice to embed in our economy. Though, I don’t imagine that can ever be governed into place, given that socialism and communism ultimately end in totalitarianism. It’ll likely take many generations and many revolutions, but I do hope someday we figure out how to stop excusing our selfishness and naturally give until everyone else has what they need. We could create utopia today if we could successfully fight the urges of our monkey brains. But in the near-term, I think the best we can do is survive and chip away at the notion that just because we can take more, we don’t have to.
    - surement 4y ago
      The notion that capitalists aren't compassionate is pure propaganda. People like capitalism because it's the best economic system in terms of results [0] [1] [2] [3]. It may increase the variance in wealth but it also raises the median and that's what actually matters. [0] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality-gdp-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality-gdp-per-c... [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/change-energy-gdp-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/change-energy-gdp-per-cap... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-per-capita-caloric-supply?tab=chart&time=earliest..latest&country=CHN~IND~BRA~OWID_WRL~USA~GBR~FRA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-per-capita-caloric-... [3] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=chart&time=1896..latest&country=GBR~IND~OWID_WRL~KHM~USA~CHN https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=chart...
      - 4y ago

jessehattabaugh 4y ago

> prices are largely based on supply and demand Then we'd better unionize before AI starts doing all the easy stuff

missedthecue 4y ago
Preserving inefficiencies for the sake of extracting money is called rent seeking.
- mushbino 4y ago
  Rent seeking is collecting money while adding no economic value. Like landlords.
  - missedthecue 4y ago
    Unions don't add economic value, hence why employers don't like them. The way they secure higher pay is by going on strike, not by offering more production or value.
    - mushbino 4y ago
      Unions provide training, good healthcare, and safety, which very much add economic value. Employers typically have the full force of market forces to pay as little as possible. Collectivisation is the workers only means to advocate for themselves.
  - surement 4y ago
    if you think that then buy a house instead of renting
    - mushbino 4y ago
      Let's throw in a yacht as well. Why would anyone not get one of those too?
  - Jensson 4y ago
    If an AI can do your job then you add no economic value, you are just collecting rent by preventing an AI from replacing you.
fallingknife 4y ago
How would unionizing prevent you from being replaced by a machine? Striking isn't a threat when you not being there is what the company is going for anyway.
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  Automation is not instant, and if the clock is between “implement AI correctly to automate the work” and “run out of money because you have no workers” a strike is still effective.

cycomanic 4y ago

If they would be based on supply and demand shouldn't nurses salaries gone through the roof recently? In every country I read the news shortage of nurses (and teachers to a lesser degree) is a huge topic and many places are badly understaffed. So why did their salaries not increase dramtically?

willcipriano 4y ago
They did, in the US at least[0]. Just not for the saps who signaled any sort of loyalty to the company, those people got hosed. Nurses need to adopt the "f you pay me" attitude the hospital administration has, doing things like working without protective gear is a great way to tell your boss that you will accept anything he does to you. [0]https://khn.org/news/highly-paid-traveling-nurses-fill-staffing-shortages-during-covid-pandemic/ https://khn.org/news/highly-paid-traveling-nurses-fill-staff...

berniedurfee 4y ago

Would the world be a better place if supply and demand weren’t the only factors in the compensation equation?

surement 4y ago
what's the alternative?
- berniedurfee 4y ago
  I don’t have a reasonable answer. Though I think some element of universal compassion would be nice to embed in our economy. Though, I don’t imagine that can ever be governed into place, given that socialism and communism ultimately end in totalitarianism. It’ll likely take many generations and many revolutions, but I do hope someday we figure out how to stop excusing our selfishness and naturally give until everyone else has what they need. We could create utopia today if we could successfully fight the urges of our monkey brains. But in the near-term, I think the best we can do is survive and chip away at the notion that just because we can take more, we don’t have to.
  - surement 4y ago
    The notion that capitalists aren't compassionate is pure propaganda. People like capitalism because it's the best economic system in terms of results [0] [1] [2] [3]. It may increase the variance in wealth but it also raises the median and that's what actually matters. [0] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality-gdp-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality-gdp-per-c... [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/change-energy-gdp-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/change-energy-gdp-per-cap... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-per-capita-caloric-supply?tab=chart&time=earliest..latest&country=CHN~IND~BRA~OWID_WRL~USA~GBR~FRA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-per-capita-caloric-... [3] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=chart&time=1896..latest&country=GBR~IND~OWID_WRL~KHM~USA~CHN https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?tab=chart...
    - 4y ago