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Because of our first past the post system, the choice at the next election is effectively just: Conservative. Mostly talentless crooks who are looting the coun

Because of our first past the post system, the choice at the next election is effectively just: Conservative. Mostly talentless crooks who are looting the country as fast as they can. But are able to present a fairly united front, no matter how much they hate each other. Labour. A party that should probably be 2 parties. A left party and a centre party, who are unable to conceal their hatred for each other. Currently led by Starmer, an apparently decent man, but of questionable vision and political instincts. It's not a great choice. The Conservatives deserve to lose in a landslide. But a victorious Labour party will probably spend most of it's energy fighting amongst themselves. Time for proportional representation?

reducesuffering 4y ago
When you have the left getting 35% of the vote, the centrists getting 19%, and the right getting 30%, the right isn't working, by all means, compromise and try the centrists for a change. Why the left/Labour is unable to understand this, (throwing their weight to the centrists closer to their aims) and instead getting the right elected is astonishing.
- hermitcrab 4y ago
  The left of the Labour party seem to hate the centrists in the Labour party far more than they hate the Conservatives.
  - Jochim 4y ago
    The centrists of the Labour party conducted literal purges after intentionally smearing their own party with fabricated allegations of homophobia and anti-semitism which they spread through the media[0]. Not to mention sabotaging campaign activities by directing resources away from swing seats. There is certainly animosity from the left but largely due to the ironically Stalin-esque tactics employed by Labour centrists. I find it frankly perplexing that people can characterise the leftist elements of the Labour party as the aggressors in these circumstances. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-files-forde-report-keir-starmer-racism-b2198773.html https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-files-forde-repo...
    - hermitcrab 4y ago
      That link is not happy reading. I guess it is not surprising that the centrists hate the left back. However saying someone is “truly repulsive” or “literally makes me sick” is not necessarily racist, just because they are from an ethnic minority (note: I don't know the full context). I have wondered how real the accusations of anti-semitism in the Labour party were. Is it a deliberate conflation of anti-Israel with anti-semitism by political opponents (who I assumed were Conservatives, rather than Labour)? If we had PR it would probably be better for the Labour party to split into 2 parties. I don't see that happening under FPTP though.
      - Jochim 4y ago
        > I have wondered how real the accusations of anti-semitism in the Labour party were. Is it a deliberate conflation of anti-Israel with anti-semitism by political opponents (who I assumed were Conservatives, rather than Labour)? This is precisely what seems to have happened. Unelected officials on the right of the Labour party appear to have been at the forefront however. I don't doubt that there are some people in the Labour party that might harbour anti-semitic views. Those people should be removed. However, the only word I can think of to describe the reaction at the time is "Hysteria". The thing I find most disturbing about this is the willingness of those in power at the Labour party to target at least 35 Jewish members with claims of anti-semitism[0]: > An 82-year-old Jewish woman, who is being investigated by Labour for alleged antisemitism for the third time in less than three years, is threatening legal action against the party, claiming it has unlawfully discriminated against her based on her belief in anti-Zionism. [1] > The Labour Party has expelled one of its most prominent Jewish members – by telling a right-wing newspaper first, and allowing a journalist to leak it. [2] [0] https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/a-disproportionate-number-of-jewish-labour-party-members-are-being-suspended/ https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/a-disproport... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/20/jewish-woman-accused-antisemitism-labour-threatens-sue-anti-zionism https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/20/jewish-woma... [2] https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2022/12/16/labour-has-expelled-a-jewish-nec-member-from-the-party/ https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2022/12/16/labour-has-expelled-a...

reducesuffering 4y ago

When you have the left getting 35% of the vote, the centrists getting 19%, and the right getting 30%, the right isn't working, by all means, compromise and try the centrists for a change. Why the left/Labour is unable to understand this, (throwing their weight to the centrists closer to their aims) and instead getting the right elected is astonishing.

hermitcrab 4y ago
The left of the Labour party seem to hate the centrists in the Labour party far more than they hate the Conservatives.
- Jochim 4y ago
  The centrists of the Labour party conducted literal purges after intentionally smearing their own party with fabricated allegations of homophobia and anti-semitism which they spread through the media[0]. Not to mention sabotaging campaign activities by directing resources away from swing seats. There is certainly animosity from the left but largely due to the ironically Stalin-esque tactics employed by Labour centrists. I find it frankly perplexing that people can characterise the leftist elements of the Labour party as the aggressors in these circumstances. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-files-forde-report-keir-starmer-racism-b2198773.html https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-files-forde-repo...
  - hermitcrab 4y ago
    That link is not happy reading. I guess it is not surprising that the centrists hate the left back. However saying someone is “truly repulsive” or “literally makes me sick” is not necessarily racist, just because they are from an ethnic minority (note: I don't know the full context). I have wondered how real the accusations of anti-semitism in the Labour party were. Is it a deliberate conflation of anti-Israel with anti-semitism by political opponents (who I assumed were Conservatives, rather than Labour)? If we had PR it would probably be better for the Labour party to split into 2 parties. I don't see that happening under FPTP though.
    - Jochim 4y ago
      > I have wondered how real the accusations of anti-semitism in the Labour party were. Is it a deliberate conflation of anti-Israel with anti-semitism by political opponents (who I assumed were Conservatives, rather than Labour)? This is precisely what seems to have happened. Unelected officials on the right of the Labour party appear to have been at the forefront however. I don't doubt that there are some people in the Labour party that might harbour anti-semitic views. Those people should be removed. However, the only word I can think of to describe the reaction at the time is "Hysteria". The thing I find most disturbing about this is the willingness of those in power at the Labour party to target at least 35 Jewish members with claims of anti-semitism[0]: > An 82-year-old Jewish woman, who is being investigated by Labour for alleged antisemitism for the third time in less than three years, is threatening legal action against the party, claiming it has unlawfully discriminated against her based on her belief in anti-Zionism. [1] > The Labour Party has expelled one of its most prominent Jewish members – by telling a right-wing newspaper first, and allowing a journalist to leak it. [2] [0] https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/a-disproportionate-number-of-jewish-labour-party-members-are-being-suspended/ https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/a-disproport... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/20/jewish-woman-accused-antisemitism-labour-threatens-sue-anti-zionism https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/20/jewish-woma... [2] https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2022/12/16/labour-has-expelled-a-jewish-nec-member-from-the-party/ https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2022/12/16/labour-has-expelled-a...