4 ms·

I struggle to see why supporting OpenStreetMap wouldnt be a better course of action. OSM already has lots of good data; is the only valueadd redefining the form

I struggle to see why supporting OpenStreetMap wouldnt be a better course of action. OSM already has lots of good data; is the only valueadd redefining the format to be more enterprisey andor gatekeep some data? Hard to tell from their press release or really even the article.

danuker 4y ago
"Overture is intended to be complementary to OSM. We combine OSM with other sources to produce new open map data sets." https://overturemaps.org/resources/faq/ https://overturemaps.org/resources/faq/
- yazzku 4y ago
  Is this part of a new Embrace, Extend, Extinguish campaign? Legit question, at this point I trust the Linux Foundation as much as the corps behind it, but I'd appreciate being contradicted.
  - danuker 4y ago
    I don't trust the initiative much either. But I'll use it (and maybe contribute) if it improves my life without affecting my privacy or control of own devices.
- pojzon 4y ago
  This sounds exactly like TomTom plan for EU maps.. Difference is TomTom has its own source it can prove is better that OSM in many places.
  - petre 4y ago
    TomTom is also part of the this foundation.
timeon 4y ago
I'm not really fan of these corporations, but most of those (Google included) are supporting OSM.
- ipsum2 4y ago
  Microsoft and Meta have contributed a ton of data to OSM, but I can't find any sources about Google supporting OSM.
  - pella 4y ago
    > Google supporting OSM. via GSOC ( Google Summer of Code ) - https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2022/organizations/openstreetmap https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2022/organizatio... - https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2022/organizations/organic-maps https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2022/organizatio...
    - ipsum2 4y ago
      That technically counts, but they're not really lending any expertise, just a few thousand to pay for the intern.
plonk 4y ago
OSM isn't the be-all and end-all of GIS data. It's very incomplete in places and doesn't always spatially match with Bing's data or other sources. > is the only valueadd redefining the format to be more enterprisey andor gatekeep some data I'd like to interpret that in the "strongest possible" way as HN's guidelines request, but I can't find one. This is the opposite of what the article says. > Therefore, Overture is intended to be complementary to OSM. We combine OSM with other sources to produce new open map data sets. Overture data will be available for use by the OpenStreetMap community under compatible open data licenses. Overture members are encouraged to contribute to OSM directly.
- scarmig 4y ago
  > OSM isn't the be-all and end-all of GIS data. It's very incomplete in places I know very little about the space, but couldn't Overture members focus primarily on just filling in those gaps? > doesn't always spatially match with Google's data or other sources The map isn't the territory. Consistency with reality is what matters, not what Google says. I've never run into glaring issues with either. In the past year, the only mistake I've come across was a missing stoplight in Google's.
  - plonk 4y ago
    > I know very little about the space, but couldn't Overture members focus primarily on just filling in those gaps? That's not enough. OSM doesn't offer every kind of data you'd want about an area, it's sometimes not even remotely aligned to other databases or images, it needs to be compared to what other APIs provide to get a result with high quality. This project sounds like it's trying to make these things way easier. > The map isn't the territory. Consistency with reality is what matters, not what Google says. Absolutely not if you look at other applications than navigation services. This is _not_ only about Google Maps, it's about their API. See for example the elevation API [1], which gives you an altitude above sea level for any point on earth. This is meant to be combined with other data to build various services. Having alternatives to Google that use a standard format and are generally interoperable is great for developers. [1] https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/elevation/overview https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/elevation/o...
andrewaylett 4y ago
If Overture Maps wants something that OSM doesn't want to provide, I'm quite happy that they don't try to force OSM in a different direction. For example, OSM has data but doesn't really want to be serving map tiles to the entire world. There are companies that are quite happy to serve map tiles, but I assume that's not all they're looking for either. The Global Entity Reference System looks quite interesting: if it's going to work well, it's going to have to bear at least a passing resemblance to Unicode in that it will need to capture all the different ways that existing systems refer to distinct entities. I can understand why OSM wouldn't want to build such a system, but I hope it would also be quite valuable to the OSM community.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
petre 4y ago
It's quite hard to contribute teledetected data in bulk to OSM. For instance we tried to contribute Africa forests back in 2016 and just gave up. Later I wanted to contribute my city's borders from an official source. We had a GEOJSON and ultimately had to draw it over that with the help of another contributor and fix all the data manually. This doesn't look bad even though I don't trust Amazon, MS and Meta.

danuker 4y ago

"Overture is intended to be complementary to OSM. We combine OSM with other sources to produce new open map data sets." https://overturemaps.org/resources/faq/ https://overturemaps.org/resources/faq/

yazzku 4y ago
Is this part of a new Embrace, Extend, Extinguish campaign? Legit question, at this point I trust the Linux Foundation as much as the corps behind it, but I'd appreciate being contradicted.
- danuker 4y ago
  I don't trust the initiative much either. But I'll use it (and maybe contribute) if it improves my life without affecting my privacy or control of own devices.
pojzon 4y ago
This sounds exactly like TomTom plan for EU maps.. Difference is TomTom has its own source it can prove is better that OSM in many places.
- petre 4y ago
  TomTom is also part of the this foundation.

timeon 4y ago

I'm not really fan of these corporations, but most of those (Google included) are supporting OSM.

ipsum2 4y ago
Microsoft and Meta have contributed a ton of data to OSM, but I can't find any sources about Google supporting OSM.
- pella 4y ago
  > Google supporting OSM. via GSOC ( Google Summer of Code ) - https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2022/organizations/openstreetmap https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2022/organizatio... - https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2022/organizations/organic-maps https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2022/organizatio...
  - ipsum2 4y ago
    That technically counts, but they're not really lending any expertise, just a few thousand to pay for the intern.

plonk 4y ago

OSM isn't the be-all and end-all of GIS data. It's very incomplete in places and doesn't always spatially match with Bing's data or other sources. > is the only valueadd redefining the format to be more enterprisey andor gatekeep some data I'd like to interpret that in the "strongest possible" way as HN's guidelines request, but I can't find one. This is the opposite of what the article says. > Therefore, Overture is intended to be complementary to OSM. We combine OSM with other sources to produce new open map data sets. Overture data will be available for use by the OpenStreetMap community under compatible open data licenses. Overture members are encouraged to contribute to OSM directly.

scarmig 4y ago
> OSM isn't the be-all and end-all of GIS data. It's very incomplete in places I know very little about the space, but couldn't Overture members focus primarily on just filling in those gaps? > doesn't always spatially match with Google's data or other sources The map isn't the territory. Consistency with reality is what matters, not what Google says. I've never run into glaring issues with either. In the past year, the only mistake I've come across was a missing stoplight in Google's.
- plonk 4y ago
  > I know very little about the space, but couldn't Overture members focus primarily on just filling in those gaps? That's not enough. OSM doesn't offer every kind of data you'd want about an area, it's sometimes not even remotely aligned to other databases or images, it needs to be compared to what other APIs provide to get a result with high quality. This project sounds like it's trying to make these things way easier. > The map isn't the territory. Consistency with reality is what matters, not what Google says. Absolutely not if you look at other applications than navigation services. This is _not_ only about Google Maps, it's about their API. See for example the elevation API [1], which gives you an altitude above sea level for any point on earth. This is meant to be combined with other data to build various services. Having alternatives to Google that use a standard format and are generally interoperable is great for developers. [1] https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/elevation/overview https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/elevation/o...

andrewaylett 4y ago

If Overture Maps wants something that OSM doesn't want to provide, I'm quite happy that they don't try to force OSM in a different direction. For example, OSM has data but doesn't really want to be serving map tiles to the entire world. There are companies that are quite happy to serve map tiles, but I assume that's not all they're looking for either. The Global Entity Reference System looks quite interesting: if it's going to work well, it's going to have to bear at least a passing resemblance to Unicode in that it will need to capture all the different ways that existing systems refer to distinct entities. I can understand why OSM wouldn't want to build such a system, but I hope it would also be quite valuable to the OSM community.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

petre 4y ago

It's quite hard to contribute teledetected data in bulk to OSM. For instance we tried to contribute Africa forests back in 2016 and just gave up. Later I wanted to contribute my city's borders from an official source. We had a GEOJSON and ultimately had to draw it over that with the help of another contributor and fix all the data manually. This doesn't look bad even though I don't trust Amazon, MS and Meta.