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I don't know what you're trying to imply with that link. The vast majority of Taiwanese don't want to be part of China. One politician's failed attempt at usin

I don't know what you're trying to imply with that link. The vast majority of Taiwanese don't want to be part of China. One politician's failed attempt at using fear-mongering about imminent Chinese to get elected does not imply the Taiwanese want to become part of China.

roenxi 4y ago
We can all see what happened in Ukraine. The country is well on the way to being a smoking crater, they barely have a power grid, they've lost 10% of their land and something like 20% of their population have become refugees. We have yet to see the ramifications of pouring weapons into the 2nd most corrupt country in Europe but it is unlikely to be pretty either. Their economy is probably an ex-economy. If things go really wrong it is plausible that they will get nuked. Compare that Hong Kong, where life sucks but, end of the day, it isn't a war zone. Not as civilised as it once was, but still a respectable city. At the end of the day, there are some very difficult decisions to be made by Taiwan. Integration into China is an option that they will at least have to consider. It is a terrible option. It may be the best option they have. In their shoes, I'd be wargaming ditching the US and negotiating some sort of protectorate deal with China. Probably thinking very hard about trying to be grandfathered in as some sort of neutral Switzerland. War is still just as horrific as it ever was and being at war with the world's most industrial superpower is a very bad plan A.
- philistine 4y ago
  Are you Taiwanese? You sound like a Star Wars imperialist making decisions for a local planet in their stead.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    No, I'm Australian. What do you think the best path forward is for the Taiwanese?
    - kortilla 4y ago
      Independence
      - roenxi 4y ago
        That isn't really a path, that is a destination - how do you want them to keep their independence? Because if the plan is to sit on China's border as a staunch, militarily aligned US ally that is a plan with some very obvious risks - especially in light of what happened to Ukraine. In fact, the only way that ends well for Taiwan is if China experiences some sort of collapse. Possible, but not really a good strategy.
    - philistine 4y ago
      Whatever the Taiwanese decide themselves.
  - culi 4y ago
    I agree we should be supporting whatever it is the actual people of these countries want. Online discourses about what other countries should do drive me nuts If we had let the people decide in Ukraine, we probably wouldn't be at war now. Zelenskyy ran on and was largely elected because of a platform of making peace. And he kept his word once elected and negotiated a peace deal with Putin. It was the US and NATO that stepped in to break that apart when it was just about to be signed. The people of Ukraine clearly supported peace and we should have respected the people's will
    - throwoutway 4y ago
      > And he kept his word once elected and negotiated a peace deal with Putin. It was the US and NATO that stepped in to break that apart when it was just about to be signed. This is nonsense. Zelenskyy is on record saying the opposite and blaming Putin for not accepting the peace offering and also it’s obvious Putin started the war. Nobody else did
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      All 'peace' with Russia temporary they will only use it to rebuild there forces and attack again. Why should anyone believe a word from a Russian peace agreement is actually going to be honoured?. They already previously promised to respect Ukraines sovereignty and to never invade it but they went ahead and did it anyway. Russia is not a good faith actor, and you cannot treat it as one.
      - culi 4y ago
        I generally agree, but they've been extremely clear that this is about NATO expansion. And NATO has actually made multiple promises to NOT expand to the point of Russia's border but has made those exact expansions 3 times in the past decades. Everything Russia's done has pretty much been a direct response to this. The primary ask of the peace deal was basically just that Ukraine doesn't join NATO (something which at the time was unpopular anyways). Add to that that Joe Biden (who was the head of the US's Russia's strategy under Obama) has been pretty explicit about everything since 2014. Their primary goal is to weaken Russia. That's exactly what this proxy war is and exactly why we keep sending so much "aid". That's also why in September 66 countries representing most of the world's population asked "all sides" to resume peace talks. They didn't just mean Russia and Ukraine... Americans need to own up to their role in this (no, I'm not a Russia apologist)

roenxi 4y ago

We can all see what happened in Ukraine. The country is well on the way to being a smoking crater, they barely have a power grid, they've lost 10% of their land and something like 20% of their population have become refugees. We have yet to see the ramifications of pouring weapons into the 2nd most corrupt country in Europe but it is unlikely to be pretty either. Their economy is probably an ex-economy. If things go really wrong it is plausible that they will get nuked. Compare that Hong Kong, where life sucks but, end of the day, it isn't a war zone. Not as civilised as it once was, but still a respectable city. At the end of the day, there are some very difficult decisions to be made by Taiwan. Integration into China is an option that they will at least have to consider. It is a terrible option. It may be the best option they have. In their shoes, I'd be wargaming ditching the US and negotiating some sort of protectorate deal with China. Probably thinking very hard about trying to be grandfathered in as some sort of neutral Switzerland. War is still just as horrific as it ever was and being at war with the world's most industrial superpower is a very bad plan A.

philistine 4y ago
Are you Taiwanese? You sound like a Star Wars imperialist making decisions for a local planet in their stead.
- roenxi 4y ago
  No, I'm Australian. What do you think the best path forward is for the Taiwanese?
  - kortilla 4y ago
    Independence
    - roenxi 4y ago
      That isn't really a path, that is a destination - how do you want them to keep their independence? Because if the plan is to sit on China's border as a staunch, militarily aligned US ally that is a plan with some very obvious risks - especially in light of what happened to Ukraine. In fact, the only way that ends well for Taiwan is if China experiences some sort of collapse. Possible, but not really a good strategy.
  - philistine 4y ago
    Whatever the Taiwanese decide themselves.
- culi 4y ago
  I agree we should be supporting whatever it is the actual people of these countries want. Online discourses about what other countries should do drive me nuts If we had let the people decide in Ukraine, we probably wouldn't be at war now. Zelenskyy ran on and was largely elected because of a platform of making peace. And he kept his word once elected and negotiated a peace deal with Putin. It was the US and NATO that stepped in to break that apart when it was just about to be signed. The people of Ukraine clearly supported peace and we should have respected the people's will
  - throwoutway 4y ago
    > And he kept his word once elected and negotiated a peace deal with Putin. It was the US and NATO that stepped in to break that apart when it was just about to be signed. This is nonsense. Zelenskyy is on record saying the opposite and blaming Putin for not accepting the peace offering and also it’s obvious Putin started the war. Nobody else did
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    All 'peace' with Russia temporary they will only use it to rebuild there forces and attack again. Why should anyone believe a word from a Russian peace agreement is actually going to be honoured?. They already previously promised to respect Ukraines sovereignty and to never invade it but they went ahead and did it anyway. Russia is not a good faith actor, and you cannot treat it as one.
    - culi 4y ago
      I generally agree, but they've been extremely clear that this is about NATO expansion. And NATO has actually made multiple promises to NOT expand to the point of Russia's border but has made those exact expansions 3 times in the past decades. Everything Russia's done has pretty much been a direct response to this. The primary ask of the peace deal was basically just that Ukraine doesn't join NATO (something which at the time was unpopular anyways). Add to that that Joe Biden (who was the head of the US's Russia's strategy under Obama) has been pretty explicit about everything since 2014. Their primary goal is to weaken Russia. That's exactly what this proxy war is and exactly why we keep sending so much "aid". That's also why in September 66 countries representing most of the world's population asked "all sides" to resume peace talks. They didn't just mean Russia and Ukraine... Americans need to own up to their role in this (no, I'm not a Russia apologist)