3 ms·

Why do I need to pay $360 to read the C11 standard?

9 points by Jun8 15y ago

Jun8 15y ago
So, there was a lot of discussion on HN taking on ACM, IEEE, and Elsevier for creating paywalls, but how about ISO? Standards should be open source, free to copy and distribute without making any changes.
duncan_bayne 15y ago
Herb Sutter goes in to a bit of detail about this here: http://herbsutter.com/2010/03/03/where-can-you-get-the-iso-c-standard-and-what-does-open-standard-mean/ http://herbsutter.com/2010/03/03/where-can-you-get-the-iso-c... I've actually emailed him, suggesting a Kickstarter-like crowdfunding model for standard documents - the idea being that when the target is reached, ISO gets the money and the standard docs are released into the wild.
- Jun8 15y ago
  His "answer" is a total wimp-out, I think. Among the many points you can raise (e.g. the fact that we already fund our national standard bodies with out taxes) it doesn't explain the outrageous price ISO is asking for the standard. I'm not against paying some amount, e.g. $20-$50 but $360 for a PDF sounds Microsoftian in its greed.
  - Turing_Machine 15y ago
    I'd like to see an explanation of where, exactly, that money goes. The Sutter piece indicates that the people who actually work on the standard are volunteers, or nearly so.
  - duncan_bayne 15y ago
    Oh yeah, and he (Herb) says that he believes the standard will soon be available from ANSI for ~ $30.
- duncan_bayne 15y ago
  Turns out Herb's a C++ guy, but has forwarded my email to one of the C folk for comment. I'm particularly hoping to learn how much money they're trying to recoup & whether they'd be amenable to crowd-funding the amount.
mrb 15y ago
I remember being frustrated, as a student in the early 2000s, that the C99 standard was not freely available. I really wanted it, so after many hours and days of searching, I eventually discovered that there were drafts, and that they were freely available. That was good enough for me :) Same thing for C11, the final draft, N1570 is freely available: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf

9 points by Jun8 15y ago

Jun8 15y ago

So, there was a lot of discussion on HN taking on ACM, IEEE, and Elsevier for creating paywalls, but how about ISO? Standards should be open source, free to copy and distribute without making any changes.

duncan_bayne 15y ago

Herb Sutter goes in to a bit of detail about this here: http://herbsutter.com/2010/03/03/where-can-you-get-the-iso-c-standard-and-what-does-open-standard-mean/ http://herbsutter.com/2010/03/03/where-can-you-get-the-iso-c... I've actually emailed him, suggesting a Kickstarter-like crowdfunding model for standard documents - the idea being that when the target is reached, ISO gets the money and the standard docs are released into the wild.

Jun8 15y ago
His "answer" is a total wimp-out, I think. Among the many points you can raise (e.g. the fact that we already fund our national standard bodies with out taxes) it doesn't explain the outrageous price ISO is asking for the standard. I'm not against paying some amount, e.g. $20-$50 but $360 for a PDF sounds Microsoftian in its greed.
- Turing_Machine 15y ago
  I'd like to see an explanation of where, exactly, that money goes. The Sutter piece indicates that the people who actually work on the standard are volunteers, or nearly so.
- duncan_bayne 15y ago
  Oh yeah, and he (Herb) says that he believes the standard will soon be available from ANSI for ~ $30.
duncan_bayne 15y ago
Turns out Herb's a C++ guy, but has forwarded my email to one of the C folk for comment. I'm particularly hoping to learn how much money they're trying to recoup & whether they'd be amenable to crowd-funding the amount.

mrb 15y ago

I remember being frustrated, as a student in the early 2000s, that the C99 standard was not freely available. I really wanted it, so after many hours and days of searching, I eventually discovered that there were drafts, and that they were freely available. That was good enough for me :) Same thing for C11, the final draft, N1570 is freely available: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf