5 ms·

Groan, the luddite mentality about Windows is and has always been out of control, with so many people insisting on living on decade-old software for silly pedan

by dangus 4y ago

Groan, the luddite mentality about Windows is and has always been out of control, with so many people insisting on living on decade-old software for silly pedantic reasons like "cloud crap" that can be turned off in 5 seconds. Don't move my cheese, nothing else can possibly be better, Windows peaked 10 years ago. No, my Windows 11 system doesn't use a Microsoft Account. No, I don't get ads on Windows (web search and suggestions are off, e.g., turn Windows Search settings to "classic"). All of the annoying stuff takes very little time to disable. And let's not pretend that Windows 7 didn't have people looking to turn off things about it they found annoying. [1] Don't forget that the system requirements for Windows actually decreased after 7 when Microsoft optimized it for lower spec devices. Windows 7 isn't actually all that well optimized compared to 8/8.1/10/11. Windows 10 and 11 are much better able to take advantage of hardware enhancements on modern chips that are vastly different than the hardware available over 10 years ago. How many x86 processors had big.LITTLE architecture in 2009? Because that's what Intel is shipping now. Don't forget about all the things that are massively antiquated about Windows 7 like the legacy control panel with no search function, lack of multiple desktops, lack of basic built-ins like a PDF reader, garbage command prompt and powershell, troubleshooting wizard that did nothing, Windows Update still being relatively disruptive and unreliable. Don't forget about all the things that are actually REALLY good about Windows 11 like the game bar, task manager, Linux tooling and aliases (can you run ls ~/ | grep example in a Windows 7 shell without additional software?)/PowerShell 7/SSH being preinstalled, expanded and improved window management, very clean and minimal visual design, Windows Hello biometrics (I can SSH to my Linux server with a key stored in 1Password, automatically authenticated with my fingerprint when I run the SSH command (I don't have to open 1Password manually), using the built-in Windows SSH client, can Windows 7 do that??) Windows 7 looked good because Vista was so unfinished and inappropriately matched to the contemporary hardware of the time, but in reality it wasn't anything particularly special and had plenty of missing and frustrating aspects. [1] https://www.maketecheasier.com/disable-annoying-things-in-windows-7/ https://www.maketecheasier.com/disable-annoying-things-in-wi...

steponlego 4y ago
Nobody wants to fiddle with Windows to make it not spy on you. It's over.
- nix23 4y ago
  https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
leviathant 4y ago
I'm regularly amazed at how many people there are on HN that tell on themselves by complaining about ads in Windows. It's like complaining that IKEA furniture is difficult to assemble. Ironically, I haven't made the jump to 11 yet just because my decade old Dell has an i7 that's been remarkably resilient for the kind of work I do on it. My favorite thing about Windows is the backwards compatibility. I had a 2005 era Dell laptop that had come with XP. I think I paid $35 for an upgrade to Win7 after running the beta. Had the Win8 beta on there, which upgraded to a full version for free, and eventually upgraded to Win10 freely somehow as well. By that time, it struggled to run more than a web browser, and the internal wifi card no longer functioned, but it was remarkable that the upgrades all just worked. And I've got some pretty nice Firewire audio hardware that runs flawlessly on Windows 10 despite the last driver for it having been released in 2006.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  > I'm regularly amazed at how many people there are on HN that tell on themselves by complaining about ads in Windows. Maybe it's just me, but it gives me the feeling that the OS is actively working against me. I'm still having some configuration to do on Linux (hybrid graphics are fun and so is audio for my setup), but it's something caused by having so many options and limited time of contributors. On Windows, this is because the OS is trying to extract as much money as possible from me and that kind of adversarial relationship is not what I want to have with software that manages all of my data.
  - dangus 4y ago
    I just think that this argument is always an exaggeration of the amount of hostility commercial software is directing at users, especially reputable commercial software like Windows (we're not talking about some mobile game trying to sell me gambling tokens). I totally understand that some people prefer FOSS but it seems to turn into portraying commercial software in a distorted way. For being 100% free as in beer software with no profitable hardware ecosystem behind it (macOS), Windows 11 bothers you relatively minimally, all with things that are easily dismissed. Selling things isn't by definition amoral or adversarial. Someone who decides to search with Bing or store their data on OneDrive is getting a solution to their problem. Even open source non-profit products like Firefox and Wikipedia try to sell products or donations to financially support development.
fandaa 4y ago
I agree. But the peak is Windows 10 (BTW it already has the game bar). Windows 11 seems like a small step back in those things: I haven’t found a way how to show seconds when you click on bottom right datetime. I’ve used it countless times. Another annoying thing is the right click and hiding all things in something like Show more options. And the last one is drag&drop between windows. E.g. I was used to drag the file over the icon in taskbar, which activated/opened that that program. Now it doesn’t seem to work anymore. I personally haven’t noticed any significant improvement between 10 & 11. Maybe just more options for window snapping.
- dangus 4y ago
  Windows 11 has too many improvements over 10 for small things like that to bother me. At least, for me personally.
eterm 4y ago
In windows 11 they removed the ability to launch task manager by right clicking the task bar and it trips me up multiple times a day. It's actually infuriating.
- andrewmackrodt 4y ago
  It is still there for me.
  - pooper 4y ago
    They added it back iirc https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-build-22621755-task-manager-taskbar-menu/ https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-build-22621755-tas...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
The nice thing about win11 is that you can run all your decade old software on it. And that's my baseline for an OS: can it run programs. And thanks to the absolute ubiquitous of Windows for the last 30 years everything was made with Windows in mind.
bambax 4y ago
> so many people insisting on living on decade-old software for silly pedantic reasons But what could possibly be the point of changing something that works?? Buy a new machine, spend weeks or months reinstalling software, try to find alternatives for things that no longer work, and for what benefit? Yes one can run `ls ~/ | grep example` in a Windows 7 shell, and ok, it requires additional software, but once that additional software has been installed, it is done. What's the point of installing a new OS so that functionalities that you already have, become "native"? Who cares? Same for PDF (Sumatra) or SSH (putty), etc. etc. I have a stable system that I know intimately, on old hardware that I also know well. I don't see the need to be running after new things like a dog after a ball.
- dangus 4y ago
  Under that logic I'd still be using my Macintosh Classic. I see this the other way around: Microsoft released enhancements and security patches for $0, and my computer can run the software. What could possibly be the point of not changing my software where a new version that does more things is available for free? Imagine a car manufacturer offering to give you a new car and take you old one with no significant catch and saying no. Why would I do that? Resistance of change for resistance of change's sake alone is something that is a major pet peeve for me. It represents a negative personality trait in my mind. In my opinion, the day I refuse to use something solely because it's new, different, or scary is the day I've turned into an old grump.
  - bambax 4y ago
    Change isn't friction free, and therefore it isn't "free" except if you count your time for nothing. It takes weeks or months to reinstall things that work fine as they are. I love new things that are actually new and that bring a clear benefit; Windows 10 isn't "new", it's the same thing with the UI arranged in a slightly different way for no reason. A computer is like a hammer. When you're used to one, and you suddenly decide to use another one, it takes time to feel its proper balance and use it with the same efficiency as the previous one. You can have two hammers that you use regularly; but changing hammers every year just because there's a new one with a handle in a different color is absurd IMHO.
zqfuz 4y ago
Still waiting for them to allow me to move the taskbar to the side. (Not to mention my computer works perfectly well but since it doesn't have a TPM it can't run 11 at all)

by dangus 4y ago

steponlego 4y ago

Nobody wants to fiddle with Windows to make it not spy on you. It's over.

nix23 4y ago
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

leviathant 4y ago

I'm regularly amazed at how many people there are on HN that tell on themselves by complaining about ads in Windows. It's like complaining that IKEA furniture is difficult to assemble. Ironically, I haven't made the jump to 11 yet just because my decade old Dell has an i7 that's been remarkably resilient for the kind of work I do on it. My favorite thing about Windows is the backwards compatibility. I had a 2005 era Dell laptop that had come with XP. I think I paid $35 for an upgrade to Win7 after running the beta. Had the Win8 beta on there, which upgraded to a full version for free, and eventually upgraded to Win10 freely somehow as well. By that time, it struggled to run more than a web browser, and the internal wifi card no longer functioned, but it was remarkable that the upgrades all just worked. And I've got some pretty nice Firewire audio hardware that runs flawlessly on Windows 10 despite the last driver for it having been released in 2006.

Sebb767 4y ago
> I'm regularly amazed at how many people there are on HN that tell on themselves by complaining about ads in Windows. Maybe it's just me, but it gives me the feeling that the OS is actively working against me. I'm still having some configuration to do on Linux (hybrid graphics are fun and so is audio for my setup), but it's something caused by having so many options and limited time of contributors. On Windows, this is because the OS is trying to extract as much money as possible from me and that kind of adversarial relationship is not what I want to have with software that manages all of my data.
- dangus 4y ago
  I just think that this argument is always an exaggeration of the amount of hostility commercial software is directing at users, especially reputable commercial software like Windows (we're not talking about some mobile game trying to sell me gambling tokens). I totally understand that some people prefer FOSS but it seems to turn into portraying commercial software in a distorted way. For being 100% free as in beer software with no profitable hardware ecosystem behind it (macOS), Windows 11 bothers you relatively minimally, all with things that are easily dismissed. Selling things isn't by definition amoral or adversarial. Someone who decides to search with Bing or store their data on OneDrive is getting a solution to their problem. Even open source non-profit products like Firefox and Wikipedia try to sell products or donations to financially support development.

fandaa 4y ago

I agree. But the peak is Windows 10 (BTW it already has the game bar). Windows 11 seems like a small step back in those things: I haven’t found a way how to show seconds when you click on bottom right datetime. I’ve used it countless times. Another annoying thing is the right click and hiding all things in something like Show more options. And the last one is drag&drop between windows. E.g. I was used to drag the file over the icon in taskbar, which activated/opened that that program. Now it doesn’t seem to work anymore. I personally haven’t noticed any significant improvement between 10 & 11. Maybe just more options for window snapping.

dangus 4y ago
Windows 11 has too many improvements over 10 for small things like that to bother me. At least, for me personally.

eterm 4y ago

In windows 11 they removed the ability to launch task manager by right clicking the task bar and it trips me up multiple times a day. It's actually infuriating.

andrewmackrodt 4y ago
It is still there for me.
- pooper 4y ago
  They added it back iirc https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-build-22621755-task-manager-taskbar-menu/ https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-build-22621755-tas...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

The nice thing about win11 is that you can run all your decade old software on it. And that's my baseline for an OS: can it run programs. And thanks to the absolute ubiquitous of Windows for the last 30 years everything was made with Windows in mind.

bambax 4y ago

> so many people insisting on living on decade-old software for silly pedantic reasons But what could possibly be the point of changing something that works?? Buy a new machine, spend weeks or months reinstalling software, try to find alternatives for things that no longer work, and for what benefit? Yes one can run `ls ~/ | grep example` in a Windows 7 shell, and ok, it requires additional software, but once that additional software has been installed, it is done. What's the point of installing a new OS so that functionalities that you already have, become "native"? Who cares? Same for PDF (Sumatra) or SSH (putty), etc. etc. I have a stable system that I know intimately, on old hardware that I also know well. I don't see the need to be running after new things like a dog after a ball.

dangus 4y ago
Under that logic I'd still be using my Macintosh Classic. I see this the other way around: Microsoft released enhancements and security patches for $0, and my computer can run the software. What could possibly be the point of not changing my software where a new version that does more things is available for free? Imagine a car manufacturer offering to give you a new car and take you old one with no significant catch and saying no. Why would I do that? Resistance of change for resistance of change's sake alone is something that is a major pet peeve for me. It represents a negative personality trait in my mind. In my opinion, the day I refuse to use something solely because it's new, different, or scary is the day I've turned into an old grump.
- bambax 4y ago
  Change isn't friction free, and therefore it isn't "free" except if you count your time for nothing. It takes weeks or months to reinstall things that work fine as they are. I love new things that are actually new and that bring a clear benefit; Windows 10 isn't "new", it's the same thing with the UI arranged in a slightly different way for no reason. A computer is like a hammer. When you're used to one, and you suddenly decide to use another one, it takes time to feel its proper balance and use it with the same efficiency as the previous one. You can have two hammers that you use regularly; but changing hammers every year just because there's a new one with a handle in a different color is absurd IMHO.

zqfuz 4y ago

Still waiting for them to allow me to move the taskbar to the side. (Not to mention my computer works perfectly well but since it doesn't have a TPM it can't run 11 at all)