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I've also never seen anyone address the high chance that post UBI the #1 issue for every politician will become "I will raise the UBI" and if they don't their o

I've also never seen anyone address the high chance that post UBI the #1 issue for every politician will become "I will raise the UBI" and if they don't their opposition will. How will we deal with an ever increasing UBI and where will that every increasing source of money come from?

mongol 4y ago
Yes I don't think UBI is stable, politically. It will be a platform to make further promises from.
hakfoo 4y ago
I think the solution is to both problems is that you "de-dollarize" major parts of the economy. Instead of UBI as a bag of dollars, which landlords and merchants will immediately seek to plunder, you deliver highly-subsidized food, shelter, and rich public services. This is much harder to capture, and also has less of a ratchet factor. Consider, for example, a universal health care component. The interest in more services and coverage wanes once it reaches a level of "good enough for most people." There may be some niche voters pulled in by "we'll also cover leeches", but most people will find those arguments uncompelling. In the worst case, benefits do escalate, and you end up with more and more economic activity under government control, either as a direct UBI delivery system, or through ever growing tax rates to finance the subsidized programs. Which in and of itself may not be so bad. I know the entrpeneurship/free markets/self-directed mindset is very big in this community, but if the goal is maximizing quality-of-life metrics, this might be a viable way to deliver it. Ideally, we're all healthy, securely housed, and well fed, and our cultural-economic question becomes "how much of a discretionary hobby budget is $job_title worth?"
- leoqa 4y ago
  This is how it works in Cuba. You get a set of coupons each month for food etc
a9h74j 4y ago
Dmitri Orlov has remarked: Universal Basic Income leads to Universal Basic Outcome, which is poverty.
- cauthon 4y ago
  I don’t know who that is, but the “universal basic outcome” is already poverty
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34029763 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34029763>
djbebs 4y ago
Because that same issue happens today with the current welfare problems. People like to pretend it doesn't, but it does.
jean_tta 4y ago
I don't get it; why would it be _more_ of a problem than with current tax & benefits systems? Politicians can already make the "increase $benefit"/"decrease $tax" their #1 policy.
- eikenberry 4y ago
  But they can play a constant shell game with those, distracting you with this one while backtracking on this other one. UBI, IMO, would unify these various systems and eliminate the distractions that allow them to make these promises while not really keeping them.
  - Doxin 4y ago
    If you think this will force politicians to keep their promises, as opposed to breaking them in broad daylight, you need to pay more attention to politics. UBI making shell games like that harder is a good thing if you ask me.

mongol 4y ago

Yes I don't think UBI is stable, politically. It will be a platform to make further promises from.

hakfoo 4y ago

I think the solution is to both problems is that you "de-dollarize" major parts of the economy. Instead of UBI as a bag of dollars, which landlords and merchants will immediately seek to plunder, you deliver highly-subsidized food, shelter, and rich public services. This is much harder to capture, and also has less of a ratchet factor. Consider, for example, a universal health care component. The interest in more services and coverage wanes once it reaches a level of "good enough for most people." There may be some niche voters pulled in by "we'll also cover leeches", but most people will find those arguments uncompelling. In the worst case, benefits do escalate, and you end up with more and more economic activity under government control, either as a direct UBI delivery system, or through ever growing tax rates to finance the subsidized programs. Which in and of itself may not be so bad. I know the entrpeneurship/free markets/self-directed mindset is very big in this community, but if the goal is maximizing quality-of-life metrics, this might be a viable way to deliver it. Ideally, we're all healthy, securely housed, and well fed, and our cultural-economic question becomes "how much of a discretionary hobby budget is $job_title worth?"

leoqa 4y ago
This is how it works in Cuba. You get a set of coupons each month for food etc

a9h74j 4y ago

Dmitri Orlov has remarked: Universal Basic Income leads to Universal Basic Outcome, which is poverty.

cauthon 4y ago
I don’t know who that is, but the “universal basic outcome” is already poverty
dredmorbius 4y ago
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34029763 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34029763>

djbebs 4y ago

Because that same issue happens today with the current welfare problems. People like to pretend it doesn't, but it does.

jean_tta 4y ago

I don't get it; why would it be _more_ of a problem than with current tax & benefits systems? Politicians can already make the "increase $benefit"/"decrease $tax" their #1 policy.

eikenberry 4y ago
But they can play a constant shell game with those, distracting you with this one while backtracking on this other one. UBI, IMO, would unify these various systems and eliminate the distractions that allow them to make these promises while not really keeping them.
- Doxin 4y ago
  If you think this will force politicians to keep their promises, as opposed to breaking them in broad daylight, you need to pay more attention to politics. UBI making shell games like that harder is a good thing if you ask me.