6 ms·

Give me a new Windows that isn't dripping with contempt for the user.

danogentili 4y ago
What about switching to Linux? :) If you're running legacy OSes, you're most definitely not playing recent games with DRM or doing anything that can't be done on a recent Linux system.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- archontes 4y ago
  I still believe that linux is unsuitable for the vast majority of people. I virtualize all of my workstations with proxmox, and have the ability to backup and restore snapshots quickly, and without that ability, the number of times a gui recommended kernel update would just kill large portions of my system is too damn high. Kernel 5.15 still seems to be incompatible with running two monitors on a GTX 1080TI with any of the proprietary nvidia drivers I've tried.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - StillBored 4y ago
    What you give up with linux is the hardware compatibility. The linux bigots would say you get better HW compatibility but that is only true if your HW is old junk the manufacture abandoned years back. Nvidia tends to be a bit of a no-no when it comes to linux these days because of the wayland fiasco (and others), although it might be getting better with their latest opensource driver efforts. Who knows, but the fact does remain that linux's refusal to have a binary driver ABI fsk's anything that doesn't have an opensource driver, so usually just make sure one exists before even trying the HW.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    Linux is suitable for the vast majority of people... in the form of Android. Unfortunately that's just not suitable for any sort of actual work.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    IME Linux is fine generally but still has some prominent rough edges that show up just often enough to make it an impractical choice for their users who encounter them.
- causality0 4y ago
  Un-fucking Windows 10 is still easier than Linux where the answers to half of my problems are "You fool, if you wanted to use more than two mouse buttons you should have used Slippery Weasel 7. Trash your install and start over with a better distro. By the way Slippery Weasel 7 doesn't support changing your screen brightness."
  - StillBored 4y ago
    I get your point, but its not quite that bad if your careful about your laptop selection (most desktops its not a problem because you just plug in another mouse/whatever when you discover a compatibility issue). And KDE/etc is still wonderfully configurable with the control panel that ships, and there are loads of actual themes that aren't just someone changing a color and background image like windows. And it supports 3 or 4 start menu styles out of the box, with just a right click properties selection, or putting the task bar on the side of the window, etc, etc, etc. So, yah linux is still shit, but at this point it might have finally reached the point where its the least shitty if your careful. Largely because the competitors are doing their darnest to destroy their own offerings while chasing features/etc no one actually wants (ads anyone?).
  - wereallterrrist 4y ago
    Damn near pure FUD with any remotely, remotely mainstream laptop. The Linux ecosystem is so wildly more consistent and predictable than Win10. I mean, my laptop doesn't overheat daily in my bag when its booted to Linux, but yeah, Windows is so easy. /s
    - ShockedUnicorn 4y ago
      I'm unsure what you mean with mainstream laptop, but with my Asus zenbook I had these problems: * Sleeping doesn't work, hibernate sometimes work * Keyboard buttons for screen brightness doesn't work * Ambient light sensor doesn't work * Vsync doesn't work * Processor always highly clocked, draining battery I was able to fix some of the issues in Ubuntu by compiling kernel addons of some sort. When I switched to Arch I could with the help of their Wiki fix all of the issues, but there was lot of text config files to edit, and some more compiling of kernel stuff. Even after that I still couldn't get vsync to work properly. Watching youtube while the screen is tearing all the time is very annoying. If you want to run linux you should get a laptop that is validated to work, like framework or validated dell laptops. At least then you might only need to fix one or two issues.
cpuguy83 4y ago
That's what they said about XP when it came out.
- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
  really? who, when? I have actually lived through that era, and I can't remember there being negative sentiment about XP. I don't know about the dark corners of the internet, but the people in my circles were neutral about XP, hated Vista, loved 7, hated 8, hated 10 and hate 11 to this day, the only criticism of XP I saw is about the UI, which doesn't make sense to me - switching it was a matter of 3 clicks
  - bitwize 4y ago
    XP was the first Windows with phone-home DRM.
    - mostlysimilar 4y ago
      Better to have at-install license key check than all of the hostile telemetry and ads in Windows 11.
      - bitwize 4y ago
        Yeah, but that shit was a big deal back then. We were used to having software work for us and not anyone else, so monetizing your eyeballs or attempting to profile you and enforce copyright through the internet was weird and creepy. People lost their shit when they found out Bonzi Buddy and Comet Cursor had spyware. Today's Bonzi Buddy/Comet Cursor is called... well, Windows 11, and no one seems to care.
        userbinator 4y ago
        They're slowly stuffing that shit into updates of Windows 10 too. and no one seems to care. I suspect that's largely because of learned helplessness and the bias that search engines and the like seem to have developed. Instead of piles of critical articles about all the worst parts, we get SEO'd sites parroting the same unbearably positive marketing copy about how much "better" Win11 is.
userbinator 4y ago
1990s Microsoft: "Where do you want to go today?" 2020s Microsoft: "Where do we want you to go today?"
- accrual 4y ago
  I miss the all the research that went into developing 95's UI. So much effort went into making computers usable and discoverable for the lay person. The user was the focus of the OS. Seems a little less so now, especially with some of the usability that went away with 11.
  - causality0 4y ago
    Can you fucking imagine telling a 90s Windows developer who just built an amazing multi-tasking multi-window UI that a 2022 innovation was taking away the ability to label the windows on the taskbar?
  - coretx 4y ago
    Literally more or less all UI research from that era came from elsewhere and MS still screwed it up. Probably on purpose to sell new versions at a later date. Even the MAC UI R&I from that era comes straight from systems such as NEXT and the Amiga. Jobs was no creative genius, but he indeed was focusing on the user. Today, only free software seems to do so. Something the previous is built upon, and developed further.
- coretx 4y ago
  1990s Microsoft: "Where do you want to go today?" 2000s Microsoft: "Where do you want to try to go today?" 2010s Microsoft: "Where did you go today ?" 2020s Microsoft: "Where do we want you to go today?" /completed that for you
- int_19h 4y ago
  "We will tell you where to go today" was the running joke in the late 90s already.
dmfdmf 4y ago
All signs lead me to conclude that they want to make Window ?? as locked down as your phone, i.e. strickly a content consumption and user tracking device. Windows 11, which is garbage, is just an incremental step along the way to boil the frog.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
Microsoft Linux doesn't exist yet, they just have a cheap imitation running on top of Windows. I recommend switching to the real thing.
- acquacow 4y ago
  Well, it's ubuntu in a Hyper-V VM. It's a very real linux, and it runs /in/ windows vs on top of it...
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    Wasn't it an implementation of Linux system calls on top of NT?
    - froggit 4y ago
      > Wasn't it an implementation of Linux system calls on top of NT? Windows subsystem for linux has 2 flavors. WSL1 was more of the whole system call on NT thing, kind of. WSL2 is a lightweight hyper-v VM with an MS customized Linux kernel with a bunch of tweaks to do cool shit.
- hardware2win 4y ago
  >The Azure Sphere OS is a custom Linux-based microcontroller operating system created by Microsoft to run on an Azure Sphere-certified chip and to connect to the Azure Sphere Security Service Also >CBL-Mariner (in which CBL stands for Common Base Linux)[3] is a free and open-source Linux distribution that Microsoft has developed. It is the base container OS for Microsoft Azure services[4][5] and the graphical component of WSL

What about switching to Linux? :) If you're running legacy OSes, you're most definitely not playing recent games with DRM or doing anything that can't be done on a recent Linux system.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
archontes 4y ago
I still believe that linux is unsuitable for the vast majority of people. I virtualize all of my workstations with proxmox, and have the ability to backup and restore snapshots quickly, and without that ability, the number of times a gui recommended kernel update would just kill large portions of my system is too damn high. Kernel 5.15 still seems to be incompatible with running two monitors on a GTX 1080TI with any of the proprietary nvidia drivers I've tried.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- StillBored 4y ago
  What you give up with linux is the hardware compatibility. The linux bigots would say you get better HW compatibility but that is only true if your HW is old junk the manufacture abandoned years back. Nvidia tends to be a bit of a no-no when it comes to linux these days because of the wayland fiasco (and others), although it might be getting better with their latest opensource driver efforts. Who knows, but the fact does remain that linux's refusal to have a binary driver ABI fsk's anything that doesn't have an opensource driver, so usually just make sure one exists before even trying the HW.
- userbinator 4y ago
  Linux is suitable for the vast majority of people... in the form of Android. Unfortunately that's just not suitable for any sort of actual work.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  IME Linux is fine generally but still has some prominent rough edges that show up just often enough to make it an impractical choice for their users who encounter them.
causality0 4y ago
Un-fucking Windows 10 is still easier than Linux where the answers to half of my problems are "You fool, if you wanted to use more than two mouse buttons you should have used Slippery Weasel 7. Trash your install and start over with a better distro. By the way Slippery Weasel 7 doesn't support changing your screen brightness."
- StillBored 4y ago
  I get your point, but its not quite that bad if your careful about your laptop selection (most desktops its not a problem because you just plug in another mouse/whatever when you discover a compatibility issue). And KDE/etc is still wonderfully configurable with the control panel that ships, and there are loads of actual themes that aren't just someone changing a color and background image like windows. And it supports 3 or 4 start menu styles out of the box, with just a right click properties selection, or putting the task bar on the side of the window, etc, etc, etc. So, yah linux is still shit, but at this point it might have finally reached the point where its the least shitty if your careful. Largely because the competitors are doing their darnest to destroy their own offerings while chasing features/etc no one actually wants (ads anyone?).
- wereallterrrist 4y ago
  Damn near pure FUD with any remotely, remotely mainstream laptop. The Linux ecosystem is so wildly more consistent and predictable than Win10. I mean, my laptop doesn't overheat daily in my bag when its booted to Linux, but yeah, Windows is so easy. /s
  - ShockedUnicorn 4y ago
    I'm unsure what you mean with mainstream laptop, but with my Asus zenbook I had these problems: * Sleeping doesn't work, hibernate sometimes work * Keyboard buttons for screen brightness doesn't work * Ambient light sensor doesn't work * Vsync doesn't work * Processor always highly clocked, draining battery I was able to fix some of the issues in Ubuntu by compiling kernel addons of some sort. When I switched to Arch I could with the help of their Wiki fix all of the issues, but there was lot of text config files to edit, and some more compiling of kernel stuff. Even after that I still couldn't get vsync to work properly. Watching youtube while the screen is tearing all the time is very annoying. If you want to run linux you should get a laptop that is validated to work, like framework or validated dell laptops. At least then you might only need to fix one or two issues.

cpuguy83 4y ago

That's what they said about XP when it came out.

throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
really? who, when? I have actually lived through that era, and I can't remember there being negative sentiment about XP. I don't know about the dark corners of the internet, but the people in my circles were neutral about XP, hated Vista, loved 7, hated 8, hated 10 and hate 11 to this day, the only criticism of XP I saw is about the UI, which doesn't make sense to me - switching it was a matter of 3 clicks
- bitwize 4y ago
  XP was the first Windows with phone-home DRM.
  - mostlysimilar 4y ago
    Better to have at-install license key check than all of the hostile telemetry and ads in Windows 11.
    - bitwize 4y ago
      Yeah, but that shit was a big deal back then. We were used to having software work for us and not anyone else, so monetizing your eyeballs or attempting to profile you and enforce copyright through the internet was weird and creepy. People lost their shit when they found out Bonzi Buddy and Comet Cursor had spyware. Today's Bonzi Buddy/Comet Cursor is called... well, Windows 11, and no one seems to care.
      - userbinator 4y ago
        They're slowly stuffing that shit into updates of Windows 10 too. and no one seems to care. I suspect that's largely because of learned helplessness and the bias that search engines and the like seem to have developed. Instead of piles of critical articles about all the worst parts, we get SEO'd sites parroting the same unbearably positive marketing copy about how much "better" Win11 is.

userbinator 4y ago

1990s Microsoft: "Where do you want to go today?" 2020s Microsoft: "Where do we want you to go today?"

accrual 4y ago
I miss the all the research that went into developing 95's UI. So much effort went into making computers usable and discoverable for the lay person. The user was the focus of the OS. Seems a little less so now, especially with some of the usability that went away with 11.
- causality0 4y ago
  Can you fucking imagine telling a 90s Windows developer who just built an amazing multi-tasking multi-window UI that a 2022 innovation was taking away the ability to label the windows on the taskbar?
- coretx 4y ago
  Literally more or less all UI research from that era came from elsewhere and MS still screwed it up. Probably on purpose to sell new versions at a later date. Even the MAC UI R&I from that era comes straight from systems such as NEXT and the Amiga. Jobs was no creative genius, but he indeed was focusing on the user. Today, only free software seems to do so. Something the previous is built upon, and developed further.
coretx 4y ago
1990s Microsoft: "Where do you want to go today?" 2000s Microsoft: "Where do you want to try to go today?" 2010s Microsoft: "Where did you go today ?" 2020s Microsoft: "Where do we want you to go today?" /completed that for you
int_19h 4y ago
"We will tell you where to go today" was the running joke in the late 90s already.

dmfdmf 4y ago

All signs lead me to conclude that they want to make Window ?? as locked down as your phone, i.e. strickly a content consumption and user tracking device. Windows 11, which is garbage, is just an incremental step along the way to boil the frog.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

Microsoft Linux doesn't exist yet, they just have a cheap imitation running on top of Windows. I recommend switching to the real thing.

acquacow 4y ago
Well, it's ubuntu in a Hyper-V VM. It's a very real linux, and it runs /in/ windows vs on top of it...
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  Wasn't it an implementation of Linux system calls on top of NT?
  - froggit 4y ago
    > Wasn't it an implementation of Linux system calls on top of NT? Windows subsystem for linux has 2 flavors. WSL1 was more of the whole system call on NT thing, kind of. WSL2 is a lightweight hyper-v VM with an MS customized Linux kernel with a bunch of tweaks to do cool shit.
hardware2win 4y ago
>The Azure Sphere OS is a custom Linux-based microcontroller operating system created by Microsoft to run on an Azure Sphere-certified chip and to connect to the Azure Sphere Security Service Also >CBL-Mariner (in which CBL stands for Common Base Linux)[3] is a free and open-source Linux distribution that Microsoft has developed. It is the base container OS for Microsoft Azure services[4][5] and the graphical component of WSL