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This is the height of hypocrisy. Everything the "twitter files" have disclosed so far is in line with what most people expected was happening, but Musk's censor

This is the height of hypocrisy. Everything the "twitter files" have disclosed so far is in line with what most people expected was happening, but Musk's censorship of the platform has been far more egregious than anything that came before. This isn't to defend the actions that Twitter took, which were arguably partisan in some cases, but it's difficult to make the case that Twitter wasn't making a best effort to curate a healthy platform. Musk by contrast has shown that he only cares about limiting speech that damages himself, and he will say or do anything to obscure that fact. He promised not to ban the elonjet account, and then reversed course: https://www.techdirt.com/2022/12/14/elons-promise-not-to-ban-account-tracking-his-jet-didnt-last-very-long-at-all-also-bans-guys-personal-account/ https://www.techdirt.com/2022/12/14/elons-promise-not-to-ban... He falsely claimed that Twitter refused to take action on child exploitation: https://twitter.com/jack/status/1601302412056473600?s=20&t=4jIvJ2xuiNax6k-AJEUdKw https://twitter.com/jack/status/1601302412056473600?s=20&t=4... He has banned journalists who were critical to him in the past: https://mastodon.world/@kairyssdal/109524620754087441 https://mastodon.world/@kairyssdal/109524620754087441 He has banned Mastodon and Pixelfed's accounts, falsly labeling them as "malware." And most hypocritically, he claims the reason for all of this is because these people have shared "assassination coordinates" and "doxxed" him, even though first of all, the information is public: https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109524630642043912 https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109524630642043912 Second, most of the journalists never linked to his private information: https://famichiki.jp/@stopthatgirl7/109522071808584229 https://famichiki.jp/@stopthatgirl7/109522071808584229 There is evidence that his claimed stalker was far from an airport, and worst in my opinion, he has doxxed critics in the past in much more damaging ways: https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/37229846-montana-skeptic/5190656-farewell-for-now https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/37229846-montana-skeptic/... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon-musk-tried-to-destroy-tesla-whistleblower-martin-tripp https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon... https://futurism.com/the-byte/twitter-employee-flees-home-elon-musk-mob https://futurism.com/the-byte/twitter-employee-flees-home-el...

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
I'll try to find an article explaining the concept, but for right-wing authoritarians, the hypocrisy is the point. In group vs out group. https://level.medium.com/its-always-about-power-f9fca4321e0c https://level.medium.com/its-always-about-power-f9fca4321e0c
- Georgelemental 4y ago
  > the hypocrisy is the point. I am right wing, and I hear right-wing commentators say things like "for left-wing authoritarians, the hypocrisy is the point" all the time. Seriously, the article you linked sounds exactly like something I would read from "my" side, just with good guys and bad guys reversed.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Georgelemental 4y ago
      What? What have I done for the last several days? No clue what you are referring to-do you have the wrong guy, maybe?
  - ShredKazoo 4y ago
    I'd consider myself a centrist democrat (registered Democrat, vote mostly for Democrats, had a wonderful childhood in a very multicultural region of California, spent several years living in Berkeley CA, my sister who I'm close to works for her local Democrat party) and I've been surprised by the strong element of left-wing extremism on HN. The culture of the site has changed quite a bit in the past few years. It used to be that there was room for more perspectives here. I feel that my interest in building a coherent political worldview puts me in a minority compared to HN users who just want to sling mud at people they see as their opponents.
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      I don’t think there’s any left wing extremism on HN. This is an insanely capitalist site. It could help your political worldview to not see the world from an overweighted American perspective, which is quite right wing.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
ShredKazoo 4y ago
>This is the height of hypocrisy. Everything the "twitter files" have disclosed so far is in line with what most people expected was happening Twitter repeatedly denied that right-wing users were being shadowbanned. That turned out to be false. A month ago, someone on HN patronizingly explained to me that Twitter's moderation was "primarily dictated by building an advertiser friendly platform": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33652282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33652282 The Twitter files have made it clear that this user's claim, "Twitter's moderation policies weren't primarily dictated by their political views", was false. If Twitter's moderation was primarily about staying advertiser-friendly, they would've announced their shadowbans publicly, so advertisers would know they were safe advertising on Twitter as a platform. There wouldn't be any interesting revelations to be had. As for doxxing, I see rules against doxxing as pro free speech. Doxxing doesn't contribute meaningfully to the public discourse. It just intimidates people into silence, interfering with speech exercise. Free speech is a subtle concept: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/01/is-it-possible-to-have-coherent-principles-around-free-speech-norms/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/01/is-it-possible-to-have... A ban on doxxing advances free speech as I understand it. You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think my position is unreasonable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33995312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33995312 >he has doxxed critics in the past in much more damaging ways Can you point to a case of, say, Yoel Roth's real-time location staying up on Twitter even after the recent rule change which prevents doxxing? It appears to me, based on the article you linked, that Yoel fled his home in the wake of ordinary criticism. Not doxxing specifically. Ordinary criticism kind of has to be allowed -- it's essential for our democracy that e.g. citizens are allowed to criticize politicians. But doxxing is where I draw the line. It seems this is why Mastodon was banned: https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/15/elon-musk-suspends-mastodon-twitter-account-over-elonjet-tracking/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/15/elon-musk-suspends-mastodo... Elon is far from perfect. But his child was physically threatened, and he responded by implementing restrictions which I consider to be correct anyways (as I stated -- doxxing is anti-free speech IMO). I think people are making more of this than it deserves. It's good if you have a CEO who's capable of changing their mind. In any case, whatever happened to the old "Twitter is a private company, they can do what they want" argument? Right-wingers aren't the only hypocrites here.
- 4y ago
Lendal 4y ago
If someone did want to assassinate lil X as he flew on a plane, they would simply buy a radio and listen in to his pilot, who is constantly "doxxing" Musk in real time, every minute of every day, as he talks to air traffic control. Why would you rely on some kid posting to social media very inaccurate and second-hand information, when you could just listen in to his coordinates broadcasting live on the radio, or at least install an app such as Flightly?

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

I'll try to find an article explaining the concept, but for right-wing authoritarians, the hypocrisy is the point. In group vs out group. https://level.medium.com/its-always-about-power-f9fca4321e0c https://level.medium.com/its-always-about-power-f9fca4321e0c

Georgelemental 4y ago
> the hypocrisy is the point. I am right wing, and I hear right-wing commentators say things like "for left-wing authoritarians, the hypocrisy is the point" all the time. Seriously, the article you linked sounds exactly like something I would read from "my" side, just with good guys and bad guys reversed.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Georgelemental 4y ago
    What? What have I done for the last several days? No clue what you are referring to-do you have the wrong guy, maybe?
- ShredKazoo 4y ago
  I'd consider myself a centrist democrat (registered Democrat, vote mostly for Democrats, had a wonderful childhood in a very multicultural region of California, spent several years living in Berkeley CA, my sister who I'm close to works for her local Democrat party) and I've been surprised by the strong element of left-wing extremism on HN. The culture of the site has changed quite a bit in the past few years. It used to be that there was room for more perspectives here. I feel that my interest in building a coherent political worldview puts me in a minority compared to HN users who just want to sling mud at people they see as their opponents.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    I don’t think there’s any left wing extremism on HN. This is an insanely capitalist site. It could help your political worldview to not see the world from an overweighted American perspective, which is quite right wing.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

ShredKazoo 4y ago

>This is the height of hypocrisy. Everything the "twitter files" have disclosed so far is in line with what most people expected was happening Twitter repeatedly denied that right-wing users were being shadowbanned. That turned out to be false. A month ago, someone on HN patronizingly explained to me that Twitter's moderation was "primarily dictated by building an advertiser friendly platform": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33652282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33652282 The Twitter files have made it clear that this user's claim, "Twitter's moderation policies weren't primarily dictated by their political views", was false. If Twitter's moderation was primarily about staying advertiser-friendly, they would've announced their shadowbans publicly, so advertisers would know they were safe advertising on Twitter as a platform. There wouldn't be any interesting revelations to be had. As for doxxing, I see rules against doxxing as pro free speech. Doxxing doesn't contribute meaningfully to the public discourse. It just intimidates people into silence, interfering with speech exercise. Free speech is a subtle concept: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/01/is-it-possible-to-have-coherent-principles-around-free-speech-norms/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/01/is-it-possible-to-have... A ban on doxxing advances free speech as I understand it. You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think my position is unreasonable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33995312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33995312 >he has doxxed critics in the past in much more damaging ways Can you point to a case of, say, Yoel Roth's real-time location staying up on Twitter even after the recent rule change which prevents doxxing? It appears to me, based on the article you linked, that Yoel fled his home in the wake of ordinary criticism. Not doxxing specifically. Ordinary criticism kind of has to be allowed -- it's essential for our democracy that e.g. citizens are allowed to criticize politicians. But doxxing is where I draw the line. It seems this is why Mastodon was banned: https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/15/elon-musk-suspends-mastodon-twitter-account-over-elonjet-tracking/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/15/elon-musk-suspends-mastodo... Elon is far from perfect. But his child was physically threatened, and he responded by implementing restrictions which I consider to be correct anyways (as I stated -- doxxing is anti-free speech IMO). I think people are making more of this than it deserves. It's good if you have a CEO who's capable of changing their mind. In any case, whatever happened to the old "Twitter is a private company, they can do what they want" argument? Right-wingers aren't the only hypocrites here.

4y ago

Lendal 4y ago

If someone did want to assassinate lil X as he flew on a plane, they would simply buy a radio and listen in to his pilot, who is constantly "doxxing" Musk in real time, every minute of every day, as he talks to air traffic control. Why would you rely on some kid posting to social media very inaccurate and second-hand information, when you could just listen in to his coordinates broadcasting live on the radio, or at least install an app such as Flightly?