4 ms·

I've got a theory that the TV show Firefly is appreciated today because it got cancelled before it was popular; they quit when they were ahead and before popula

I've got a theory that the TV show Firefly is appreciated today because it got cancelled before it was popular; they quit when they were ahead and before popularity ruined it. But most Firefly fans seem to hate my theory.

echelon 4y ago
I think you're absolutely correct. The show was campy, and in time, would have become grating and fallen apart. Star Wars, once lauded, has been milked dry. There are a few good works, but by and large they're beating a dead horse. The same thing is happening to Marvel. People checked out after Endgame. Game of Thrones was so near to perfection. It had an unusually large cast of a hundred characters and an expansive world to draw down. But even if the new show is good, the magic is gone. The mystery of Stranger Things after season one ended. We're getting a rehash with common character tropes you can find anywhere. The allure of Westworld softened after season one attempted to open up to bigger themes, but actually cut down on the possibility space. The third Godfather. Dexter. Every single Jurassic Park but the first. Jaws. On and on. Chiefly, it's simply a function of multiplied probabilities to continue with a success streak. Eventually the odds do not pay off in your favor. But I think another contributing factor is that our brains begin to fit the shape of the setting, the motifs, the character arcs, the narrative world - and we just aren't surprised or pleased any longer. Few people would ask for twenty seasons of a show. Or ten movies in a given franchise. Our brains learn the shape of the landscape and grow bored.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > The same thing is happening to Marvel. People checked out after Endgame. First, it would be weird to say that was because Marvel was falling apart. It was the conclusion of a decade long movie franchise. Of course people might watch something else once the story they had been following was done. It doesn't mean they won't come back or didn't like the new movies, it means they wanted a break. But mainly, it's also not true. Leaving aside 2020 (when Marvel released their movies all online), let's look at 2021. 4 out of the top 10 movies were Marvel movies (including number 1). In 2022, they have 3 of the top 10 slots. They were beaten out by the Top Gun reboot and the latest Jurassic Park
  - echelon 4y ago
    > it means they wanted a break My point exactly. We tire of the familiar. > 4 out of the top 10 movies were Marvel movies Disney operates at a scale none of their peers can match. They have the most well tuned pipeline of any production company. I'd expect this. Nevertheless, metrics point to declining interest. If I had time to write a longer comment, I'd be able to cite sources and offer more than just a suggestion to google "marvel fatigue".
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      Wanting something different is not the statement that you were originally making. Your original contention was that quality goes down, it "becomes grating and falls apart".
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    > They were beaten out by the Top Gun reboot and the latest Jurassic Park Which is both sad and hilarious in the context of this thread
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      I mean, rounding out the top 10 of 2022 are the latest Minions, Batman, Harry Potter, Sonic the Hedgehog (for some reason) and a sequel to a Chinese movie which was in the top 10 in 2021. Nothing original at all in 2022, and the big things that may still break into the top 10 (e.g. Avatar 2) are also sequels. In 2021, the only original things were the highest production cost Chinese movie in history that glorified the Chinese army vanquishing their enemies (South Korea, the US) in the Korean War (this is the one that got a sequel) and a Chinese comedy. The western movies were the latest Bond, Fast and Furious, Kong vs. Godzilla, and Sing 2. (A Chinese movie series also was in the top 10 in 2021)
- ghaff 4y ago
  Yeah, some of the sometimes literal Wild West in space was fun given appealing characters. Even Serenity worked pretty well. I'm not sure how it would have played out longer term. I certainly probably appreciate it better as a brief fan fave than something that maybe wore out its welcome sooner rather than later.
- rufus_foreman 4y ago
  >> Star Wars, once lauded, has been milked dry. There are a few good works, but by and large they're beating a dead horse That's been true since 1983.
rdlw 4y ago
Well yes, most people react poorly to "The reason you love the thing you love is not because it is good, but for <shallow/superficial reason>"
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  No, I'm saying that Firefly is and was good. It never got a chance to become bad.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    And even if not become bad... For myself I have something called the 5 season rule. Not literal (quite) but somewhere around 5 seasons I just get bored--even if the show if still on a good trajectory, which it often isn't.
dudeofea 4y ago
Firefly was a mistake, in that the corporate machine made a mistake in not extracting all that it could from it in follow-up seasons, movies, sequels, etc. You know how good a movie is by how many sequels it took to kill it.
goatlover 4y ago
How does something being popular ruin its quality? The reason people diss hipsters is because they’re reacting to what other people enjoy instead of just liking something for its own sake.
- mitchdoogle 4y ago
  I suppose popularity could inflate the creators' egos, leading them to make unilateral decisions without any advice or input from others. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially if the creator was already making unilateral decisions, but if before the popularity there was a group of people making decisions (such as a writers room for a television show) and after popularity they stop doing that, then there is a risk the quality goes down. Of course that's just one possibility of how popularity could lead to a reduction in quality, and its not the popularity itself that is the cause, it is a change in decision-making procedure. So in general, I would say it is disingenuous and pretentious to dislike something because of its popularity. It's not a valid reason
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    > I suppose popularity could inflate the creators' egos, leading them to make unilateral decisions without any advice or input from others. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially if the creator was already making unilateral decisions, but if before the popularity there was a group of people making decisions (such as a writers room for a television show) and after popularity they stop doing that, then there is a risk the quality goes down. Kojima and the Metal Gear series.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  Popular songs are ruined by being ubiquitous. They're everywhere for a period of time. Over concentrated. Inescapable. And from that point, ruined. Popular movies get discussed to death and over-mis-interpreted to the point where just the mention of it causes a mental effort to ignore the assumed sycophantic rambling that's to follow. Popularity ruins perceived quality by the nature of media to seize upon it and, as someone else said in a slightly different context above, squeeze every last cent of profit out of the opportunity that's presented by it's popularity. Technically it doesn't affect the quality, but it adds a thick layer of media slime that can take years to dry up and fall off. Lastly, popularity and quality are two scales that have interesting intersections. It's a concept I'd actually like to investigate further.

echelon 4y ago

I think you're absolutely correct. The show was campy, and in time, would have become grating and fallen apart. Star Wars, once lauded, has been milked dry. There are a few good works, but by and large they're beating a dead horse. The same thing is happening to Marvel. People checked out after Endgame. Game of Thrones was so near to perfection. It had an unusually large cast of a hundred characters and an expansive world to draw down. But even if the new show is good, the magic is gone. The mystery of Stranger Things after season one ended. We're getting a rehash with common character tropes you can find anywhere. The allure of Westworld softened after season one attempted to open up to bigger themes, but actually cut down on the possibility space. The third Godfather. Dexter. Every single Jurassic Park but the first. Jaws. On and on. Chiefly, it's simply a function of multiplied probabilities to continue with a success streak. Eventually the odds do not pay off in your favor. But I think another contributing factor is that our brains begin to fit the shape of the setting, the motifs, the character arcs, the narrative world - and we just aren't surprised or pleased any longer. Few people would ask for twenty seasons of a show. Or ten movies in a given franchise. Our brains learn the shape of the landscape and grow bored.

HWR_14 4y ago
> The same thing is happening to Marvel. People checked out after Endgame. First, it would be weird to say that was because Marvel was falling apart. It was the conclusion of a decade long movie franchise. Of course people might watch something else once the story they had been following was done. It doesn't mean they won't come back or didn't like the new movies, it means they wanted a break. But mainly, it's also not true. Leaving aside 2020 (when Marvel released their movies all online), let's look at 2021. 4 out of the top 10 movies were Marvel movies (including number 1). In 2022, they have 3 of the top 10 slots. They were beaten out by the Top Gun reboot and the latest Jurassic Park
- echelon 4y ago
  > it means they wanted a break My point exactly. We tire of the familiar. > 4 out of the top 10 movies were Marvel movies Disney operates at a scale none of their peers can match. They have the most well tuned pipeline of any production company. I'd expect this. Nevertheless, metrics point to declining interest. If I had time to write a longer comment, I'd be able to cite sources and offer more than just a suggestion to google "marvel fatigue".
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    Wanting something different is not the statement that you were originally making. Your original contention was that quality goes down, it "becomes grating and falls apart".
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  > They were beaten out by the Top Gun reboot and the latest Jurassic Park Which is both sad and hilarious in the context of this thread
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    I mean, rounding out the top 10 of 2022 are the latest Minions, Batman, Harry Potter, Sonic the Hedgehog (for some reason) and a sequel to a Chinese movie which was in the top 10 in 2021. Nothing original at all in 2022, and the big things that may still break into the top 10 (e.g. Avatar 2) are also sequels. In 2021, the only original things were the highest production cost Chinese movie in history that glorified the Chinese army vanquishing their enemies (South Korea, the US) in the Korean War (this is the one that got a sequel) and a Chinese comedy. The western movies were the latest Bond, Fast and Furious, Kong vs. Godzilla, and Sing 2. (A Chinese movie series also was in the top 10 in 2021)
ghaff 4y ago
Yeah, some of the sometimes literal Wild West in space was fun given appealing characters. Even Serenity worked pretty well. I'm not sure how it would have played out longer term. I certainly probably appreciate it better as a brief fan fave than something that maybe wore out its welcome sooner rather than later.
rufus_foreman 4y ago
>> Star Wars, once lauded, has been milked dry. There are a few good works, but by and large they're beating a dead horse That's been true since 1983.

rdlw 4y ago

Well yes, most people react poorly to "The reason you love the thing you love is not because it is good, but for <shallow/superficial reason>"

LarryMullins 4y ago
No, I'm saying that Firefly is and was good. It never got a chance to become bad.
- ghaff 4y ago
  And even if not become bad... For myself I have something called the 5 season rule. Not literal (quite) but somewhere around 5 seasons I just get bored--even if the show if still on a good trajectory, which it often isn't.

dudeofea 4y ago

Firefly was a mistake, in that the corporate machine made a mistake in not extracting all that it could from it in follow-up seasons, movies, sequels, etc. You know how good a movie is by how many sequels it took to kill it.

goatlover 4y ago

How does something being popular ruin its quality? The reason people diss hipsters is because they’re reacting to what other people enjoy instead of just liking something for its own sake.

mitchdoogle 4y ago
I suppose popularity could inflate the creators' egos, leading them to make unilateral decisions without any advice or input from others. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially if the creator was already making unilateral decisions, but if before the popularity there was a group of people making decisions (such as a writers room for a television show) and after popularity they stop doing that, then there is a risk the quality goes down. Of course that's just one possibility of how popularity could lead to a reduction in quality, and its not the popularity itself that is the cause, it is a change in decision-making procedure. So in general, I would say it is disingenuous and pretentious to dislike something because of its popularity. It's not a valid reason
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  > I suppose popularity could inflate the creators' egos, leading them to make unilateral decisions without any advice or input from others. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially if the creator was already making unilateral decisions, but if before the popularity there was a group of people making decisions (such as a writers room for a television show) and after popularity they stop doing that, then there is a risk the quality goes down. Kojima and the Metal Gear series.
BLKNSLVR 4y ago
Popular songs are ruined by being ubiquitous. They're everywhere for a period of time. Over concentrated. Inescapable. And from that point, ruined. Popular movies get discussed to death and over-mis-interpreted to the point where just the mention of it causes a mental effort to ignore the assumed sycophantic rambling that's to follow. Popularity ruins perceived quality by the nature of media to seize upon it and, as someone else said in a slightly different context above, squeeze every last cent of profit out of the opportunity that's presented by it's popularity. Technically it doesn't affect the quality, but it adds a thick layer of media slime that can take years to dry up and fall off. Lastly, popularity and quality are two scales that have interesting intersections. It's a concept I'd actually like to investigate further.