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There's a sad irony to the world's largest company producing a sci-fi dystopian drama. It's the same feeling I get watching Rings of Power, where the CGI is nic

There's a sad irony to the world's largest company producing a sci-fi dystopian drama. It's the same feeling I get watching Rings of Power, where the CGI is nice and some of the costumes are cool, but the sterile writing and direction completely undermines it. Money can buy you a lot of nice things, but good television needs to be inspired. Apple has the largest savior complex out of everyone in FAANG, and I'm not sure if that's the healthiest way to approach this book. Maybe it'll turn out great though, which might even be more ironic.

Apocryphon 4y ago
Severance is the ultimate example of this. It is very inspired, however, thanks to Ben Stiller at its creative helm.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  Severance is so good it's the thing that should get people to subscribe to AppleTV+. Ted Lasso's fine and all, but Severance is astonishing.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I've heard good things, I look forward to torr- I mean paying for a subscription of Apple TV+ to check it out! On a more serious note, I'm open to the idea it could be great. I hate HBO and their business model, but I'll be damned if they didn't use their power to make some phenomenal television. That being said, the irony is more in the context of the source material, rather than how good or bad the show might be. At the very least, Rings of Power doesn't portray a Numenorean package fulfillment center...
- louthy 4y ago
  IMHO Severance is the most inspirational TV since Twin Peaks. It’s a real work of art. A masterpiece. It’s the only reason I signed up to Apple TV+. I looked for other shows on there, but cancelled not long after.
  - glial 4y ago
    I haven't watched Severance (yet...yours is quite an endorsement!) but I have been enjoying For All Mankind.
    - louthy 4y ago
      > yours is quite an endorsement! And I’m massively underselling it :)
      - tfandango 4y ago
        I agree. Of all the TV I've watched in recent memory, I continue to think about Severance all the time. To think I only watched it because of the Parks n' Rec guy!
    - ghaff 4y ago
      I really liked Severance. Though I loved For All Mankind. In a different vein. Ted Lasso and The Morning Show. Couldn't get into Foundation though. Not terrible but meh. May try again at some point.
    - Anthony-G 4y ago
      I haven’t (yet) watched Twin Peaks but I’d wholeheartedly concur with that endorsement. For quality / episode ratio, I’d put it up there with the first four seasons of the Wire (10/10). The first episode of Severance is quite slow with regards to plot but still visually compelling. The cinematography, music and character building stay consistently excellent throughout the series but the drama and tension increasingly ramp up so much that my wife and I were on the edge of our seats for the last few episodes. It was so good that I intend to re-watch Season One before watching Season Two (I’m guessing that there will be follow-up) comes out. My wife and I both really enjoyed the first two seasons of For All Mankind. She generally dislikes science fiction and anything to do with space but was soon won over by the human element and the great characters. However, we both felt that the quality of the show (particularly the writing) fell hard with the third season. We both also thought that Shining Girls was an excellent mini-series and have Slow Horses lined up to watch next.
- TheTon 4y ago
  Severance is great, but it sure felt to me like a send up of Apple’s own corporate culture with some mid century IBM thrown in. I wonder how Ben Stiller was able to nail the vibe so well as someone who hasn’t spent time as a worker in a place like that. It’s uncanny.
  - louthy 4y ago
    It’s seems the show has a truly exceptional team, they collectively nailed it. Everything is sublime: the writing, the cast, the acting, the sets and locations, the cinematography, the music, even the opening credits. So it doesn’t surprise me that they nailed that weird blend of retro and modern corporate culture
    - drcongo 4y ago
      And that final episode of season 1, my god that's some of the best multi-strand story telling I've ever seen in any form. Even Thelma Schoonmaker couldn't have edited that better.
      - louthy 4y ago
        Agreed, it was another level. My only fear is that there’s no way they can pull this off twice. I just hope they can get near to season 1’s brilliance with season 2
willis936 4y ago
RoP's cardinal sin was that it was boring. HotD and Andor are both examples of megacorporations producing art that resonates with humans in 2022. RoP didn't have to suck.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I agree, in an alternative universe with a different director (maybe even a different edit), the show could probably be pretty good. HotD was good, but frankly it's a capitalization on how god-awful GoT's 8th season was. They could have produced a wet shit like Amazon did and it would still be a redemption arc for G.R.R.M's television adaptations. Andor I haven't seen yet (not a disney guy) but I sorta get the same vibes. Disney, for all their artistic weal and woe, makes a ton of safe and boring films these days. It doesn't really impress me that they can put together an M-rated show that doesn't suck.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Andor is really less of a Disney thing so much as Disney allowing the Gilroy brothers (who were involved with the Jason Bourne series and legal thriller Michael Clayton) create an elaborate espionage show stuffed with sociopolitical commentary and historical allusions, which just happens to be set in the Star Wars universe. Others involved with it include people who worked on House of Cards, The Americans, and Black Mirror, so it has that level of pedigree. It's basically doing to Star Wars what The Wire did to Baltimore.
  - glial 4y ago
    FWIW I watched Andor on the advice of a friend (I'm also not a Disney guy, nor really a huge Star Wars fan past the originals) and really loved it. The Star Wars tie-ins are a bit besides the point, though the design references are neat. It feels like a movie about an insurgency against Franco, just set in the future.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      That's a good point. I'm only part-way through but, so far, you could pretty much take out the various design references to Star Wars and make a few other tweaks and you'd still have a good series not set in the Star Wars universe. I didn't really dislike the sequels to the original trilogy but they were forced to do way too much fan service. It's probably no coincidence that the best entrants in the universe in the modern era are probably Rogue One and the Mandalorian which in spite of very obvious tie-in are mostly unrelated to the original series.
A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
I feel a similar sentiment, but since that sentiment sells ( see Bill Hicks on advertising dollar[1] ), company might dial down the usual propaganda in lieu of actual customer satisfaction. If you are looking for more recent example, check Amazon's "Expanse". It is very anti-corporate space opera and came from a company that is likely to eventually put ads in orbit. edit: I will add one more thought. Assuming it is a decent adaptation, it may introduce a younger generation to what risks some people predicted in our developing society. At the very least, it may get them interested. [1]https://genius.com/Bill-hicks-on-advertisers-and-marketing-annotated https://genius.com/Bill-hicks-on-advertisers-and-marketing-a...
selfmodruntime 4y ago
It's a real phenomena and I'm not sure why it's happening. Every time without fail, the writer's are always uninterested in the source material and mostly known for some imitation of a not so great show. If you're spending literal billions, why not hire a big shot writer who can actually work with the source material instead of shoe horning their fringe political opinions?
- TremendousJudge 4y ago
  because the "shoehorned political opinions" are not coming from the writer, are coming from market research done by the executives. they will not risk their investment by hiring a writer known for taking risks and having a vision, which ironically is what dooms the product to mediocrity
  - selfmodruntime 4y ago
    I thought this at first too, but actual market research shows that real "woke" opinions are about as rare as facist ones. If they did market research, I think they mistook the loud minority on twitter and the internet in general for their larger viewer base. I can't prove my ideas, but I can certainly see Disney losing billions, their CEO leaving and their stock crashing.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    Given the way most of these politicised productions have been underperforming and sometimes even crashing this seems to be unlikely. It is not the market which demands this type of programming but more likely to be an outflow of the focus on ESG by certain investment companies which will eventually find out their investments tend to loose value if they insist on pushing a political agenda before profitability. These companies are not dealing with their own money so they hold a fiduciary duty towards their clients who are, by and large, not in it for pushing politics. Once their investments start tanking they'll start looking for someone to blame and sue which is when Blackrock, Vantage and the other investment companies pushing ESG will start to feel the heat.
balsam 4y ago
It’s clear by the ratings that The Peripheral, based on Gibson, but also an AmazonVideo product, has Rings of Power beat by a significant margin. And “The P” was the underdog here. So theres a chance that AppleTV+ (as well as AV) will learn from that and steer clear of the more obvious mistakes.

Apocryphon 4y ago

Severance is the ultimate example of this. It is very inspired, however, thanks to Ben Stiller at its creative helm.

KerrAvon 4y ago
Severance is so good it's the thing that should get people to subscribe to AppleTV+. Ted Lasso's fine and all, but Severance is astonishing.
smoldesu 4y ago
I've heard good things, I look forward to torr- I mean paying for a subscription of Apple TV+ to check it out! On a more serious note, I'm open to the idea it could be great. I hate HBO and their business model, but I'll be damned if they didn't use their power to make some phenomenal television. That being said, the irony is more in the context of the source material, rather than how good or bad the show might be. At the very least, Rings of Power doesn't portray a Numenorean package fulfillment center...
louthy 4y ago
IMHO Severance is the most inspirational TV since Twin Peaks. It’s a real work of art. A masterpiece. It’s the only reason I signed up to Apple TV+. I looked for other shows on there, but cancelled not long after.
- glial 4y ago
  I haven't watched Severance (yet...yours is quite an endorsement!) but I have been enjoying For All Mankind.
  - louthy 4y ago
    > yours is quite an endorsement! And I’m massively underselling it :)
    - tfandango 4y ago
      I agree. Of all the TV I've watched in recent memory, I continue to think about Severance all the time. To think I only watched it because of the Parks n' Rec guy!
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I really liked Severance. Though I loved For All Mankind. In a different vein. Ted Lasso and The Morning Show. Couldn't get into Foundation though. Not terrible but meh. May try again at some point.
  - Anthony-G 4y ago
    I haven’t (yet) watched Twin Peaks but I’d wholeheartedly concur with that endorsement. For quality / episode ratio, I’d put it up there with the first four seasons of the Wire (10/10). The first episode of Severance is quite slow with regards to plot but still visually compelling. The cinematography, music and character building stay consistently excellent throughout the series but the drama and tension increasingly ramp up so much that my wife and I were on the edge of our seats for the last few episodes. It was so good that I intend to re-watch Season One before watching Season Two (I’m guessing that there will be follow-up) comes out. My wife and I both really enjoyed the first two seasons of For All Mankind. She generally dislikes science fiction and anything to do with space but was soon won over by the human element and the great characters. However, we both felt that the quality of the show (particularly the writing) fell hard with the third season. We both also thought that Shining Girls was an excellent mini-series and have Slow Horses lined up to watch next.
TheTon 4y ago
Severance is great, but it sure felt to me like a send up of Apple’s own corporate culture with some mid century IBM thrown in. I wonder how Ben Stiller was able to nail the vibe so well as someone who hasn’t spent time as a worker in a place like that. It’s uncanny.
- louthy 4y ago
  It’s seems the show has a truly exceptional team, they collectively nailed it. Everything is sublime: the writing, the cast, the acting, the sets and locations, the cinematography, the music, even the opening credits. So it doesn’t surprise me that they nailed that weird blend of retro and modern corporate culture
  - drcongo 4y ago
    And that final episode of season 1, my god that's some of the best multi-strand story telling I've ever seen in any form. Even Thelma Schoonmaker couldn't have edited that better.
    - louthy 4y ago
      Agreed, it was another level. My only fear is that there’s no way they can pull this off twice. I just hope they can get near to season 1’s brilliance with season 2

willis936 4y ago

RoP's cardinal sin was that it was boring. HotD and Andor are both examples of megacorporations producing art that resonates with humans in 2022. RoP didn't have to suck.

smoldesu 4y ago
I agree, in an alternative universe with a different director (maybe even a different edit), the show could probably be pretty good. HotD was good, but frankly it's a capitalization on how god-awful GoT's 8th season was. They could have produced a wet shit like Amazon did and it would still be a redemption arc for G.R.R.M's television adaptations. Andor I haven't seen yet (not a disney guy) but I sorta get the same vibes. Disney, for all their artistic weal and woe, makes a ton of safe and boring films these days. It doesn't really impress me that they can put together an M-rated show that doesn't suck.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Andor is really less of a Disney thing so much as Disney allowing the Gilroy brothers (who were involved with the Jason Bourne series and legal thriller Michael Clayton) create an elaborate espionage show stuffed with sociopolitical commentary and historical allusions, which just happens to be set in the Star Wars universe. Others involved with it include people who worked on House of Cards, The Americans, and Black Mirror, so it has that level of pedigree. It's basically doing to Star Wars what The Wire did to Baltimore.
- glial 4y ago
  FWIW I watched Andor on the advice of a friend (I'm also not a Disney guy, nor really a huge Star Wars fan past the originals) and really loved it. The Star Wars tie-ins are a bit besides the point, though the design references are neat. It feels like a movie about an insurgency against Franco, just set in the future.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    That's a good point. I'm only part-way through but, so far, you could pretty much take out the various design references to Star Wars and make a few other tweaks and you'd still have a good series not set in the Star Wars universe. I didn't really dislike the sequels to the original trilogy but they were forced to do way too much fan service. It's probably no coincidence that the best entrants in the universe in the modern era are probably Rogue One and the Mandalorian which in spite of very obvious tie-in are mostly unrelated to the original series.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

I feel a similar sentiment, but since that sentiment sells ( see Bill Hicks on advertising dollar[1] ), company might dial down the usual propaganda in lieu of actual customer satisfaction. If you are looking for more recent example, check Amazon's "Expanse". It is very anti-corporate space opera and came from a company that is likely to eventually put ads in orbit. edit: I will add one more thought. Assuming it is a decent adaptation, it may introduce a younger generation to what risks some people predicted in our developing society. At the very least, it may get them interested. [1]https://genius.com/Bill-hicks-on-advertisers-and-marketing-annotated https://genius.com/Bill-hicks-on-advertisers-and-marketing-a...

selfmodruntime 4y ago

It's a real phenomena and I'm not sure why it's happening. Every time without fail, the writer's are always uninterested in the source material and mostly known for some imitation of a not so great show. If you're spending literal billions, why not hire a big shot writer who can actually work with the source material instead of shoe horning their fringe political opinions?

TremendousJudge 4y ago
because the "shoehorned political opinions" are not coming from the writer, are coming from market research done by the executives. they will not risk their investment by hiring a writer known for taking risks and having a vision, which ironically is what dooms the product to mediocrity
- selfmodruntime 4y ago
  I thought this at first too, but actual market research shows that real "woke" opinions are about as rare as facist ones. If they did market research, I think they mistook the loud minority on twitter and the internet in general for their larger viewer base. I can't prove my ideas, but I can certainly see Disney losing billions, their CEO leaving and their stock crashing.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  Given the way most of these politicised productions have been underperforming and sometimes even crashing this seems to be unlikely. It is not the market which demands this type of programming but more likely to be an outflow of the focus on ESG by certain investment companies which will eventually find out their investments tend to loose value if they insist on pushing a political agenda before profitability. These companies are not dealing with their own money so they hold a fiduciary duty towards their clients who are, by and large, not in it for pushing politics. Once their investments start tanking they'll start looking for someone to blame and sue which is when Blackrock, Vantage and the other investment companies pushing ESG will start to feel the heat.

balsam 4y ago

It’s clear by the ratings that The Peripheral, based on Gibson, but also an AmazonVideo product, has Rings of Power beat by a significant margin. And “The P” was the underdog here. So theres a chance that AppleTV+ (as well as AV) will learn from that and steer clear of the more obvious mistakes.