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> Dune was said to be unfilmable for years until Villeneuve went and did I always assumed this argument goes for the whole of the original Dune universe. The

> Dune was said to be unfilmable for years until Villeneuve went and did I always assumed this argument goes for the whole of the original Dune universe. The first book is pretty straight forward and easy to understand. The further on you go with them, the more problematic it becomes as it is mainly dialogue and not much is really happening. Neuromancer is far more challenging than the first books of Dune and I doubt from what Villeneuve did to the first book that he'd be capable of going even half way without gutting it of all the really interesting parts. This one felt pretty shallow already. The effects were fine though.

Apocryphon 4y ago
> Neuromancer is far more challenging than the first books of Dune. How so? I'd expect that with both reality turning more and more cyberpunk, and the revived interest in the retrofuturistic '80s-early '90s form of the genre with Cyberpunk 2077 and its Netflix anime adaptation, audiences are primed for this sort of thing.
- Krasnol 4y ago
  What you are talking about is the visual experience. In my opinion, this will be mostly a problem BECAUSE the visuals have been there already. All of those movies following Blade Runner did their part of the Neuromancer-Cyberpunk thing. However I consider the hardest part being the emotional depth of the characters which get their unique taste through the authors way to describe them. The Burroughesque touch and the unknowns is what makes Gibsons early works truly special (it gets easier with his latests works as we can see with the current adaptation of Peripheral). The show needs a true artists touch. It doesn't have to be what Gibson did but it should be something special, not mainstream. Dune on the other hand is a straight forward dynasty drama at the beginning and only later escalates into a philosophical exercise later on before it explodes into something completely different towards the end (of the original books). The beginning has been done already in Game of Thrones for example and is pretty much doable. Neuromancer is harder but I think Apple can pull this off because I feel this brave approach from them. A feeling I had with Netflix at the beginning.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  > retrofuturistic '80s-early '90s form of the genre I really hope this is the direction they don't go. Cyberpunk should be a forward-looking critique of modern society, not retro-futuristic trope-baiting.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    On one hand there's too much '80s nostalgiabait media, in large part influenced by the success of Stranger Things, perhaps, to the point that the faux-period piece style starts to look cliche. On the other, a proper Neuromancer adaptation should definitely have a lavishly ethereal synthwave soundtrack, and probably should have the future tech not include cyberpunk versions of smartphones. Also the world-building ought to have anachronistic details like the Soviet Union floating around in the background.
  - Krasnol 4y ago
    What is "modern society" these days? We just came out of a presidency of a guy who's stuck in the 80s and we're moving towards a new Cold War era. Meanwhile the clothing styles look like this: https://thevou.com/fashion/current-fashion-trends/ https://thevou.com/fashion/current-fashion-trends/
- RichardCA 4y ago
  "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel". Please explain how you make that imagery work in a way that's accessible to the old-school 80's crowd along with the younger folks who have no clue what that reference means. They absolutely have to get that right. No one wants to see Johnny Mnemonic again. In the first chapter, Case can't jack in because his brain was wrecked by the Russian mycotoxin. The lazy thing to do is explain that by having him dump expositiory dialog out of his mouth. The hard thing to do is actually show how jacking in works, but you can't just rehash the classic 1982 Tron style visuals one more time. A fresh approach is what's needed, a vision that's futuristic but also gets the retro part right. So yeah, good luck with that.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    There were some fine attempts to adapt that imagery in the previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33886291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33886291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33886295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33886295 > No one wants to see Johnny Mnemonic again. That adaptation is over 25 years old. I think we're probably a little better at adapting fiction as a society.
    - RichardCA 4y ago
      I'm not saying Johnny Mnemonic is bad, just that it dates itself to the 90's so obviously these days. Same with Virtuosity, which I think is a very underrated movie. In particular I really liked Henry Rollins' performance. It was the one thing they got just right.
larrik 4y ago
It's been some time since I read it, but I would think the most challenging aspect of Neuromance would be in the visuals. If done well, they'd convey a good chunk of the book's worldbuilding and other descriptions, leaving mostly the characters and the heist. I think the bigger challenge is that it's been partially adapted so many times already by inspiring so many shows and movies over the decades that the actual adaption would seem derivative and like treading old ground. Therefore, how do you make it it's own thing while respecting the source material.
- Krasnol 4y ago
  I agree totally with your argument regarding the visuals. Judging from the Foundation though, I'm pretty optimistic they can manage that. They seem to be willing to through serious cash at their shows. It doesn't always mean something as we have seen with the Super Hero Hype but they did a wonderful thing with the Foundation visually. However I'm not sure about the characters, their development and their emotional structures. You should read the book(s) again and watch out for the style in which Gibson build them. The books are a great re-read. I'll go for it myself once I'm finished with my current read.

Apocryphon 4y ago

> Neuromancer is far more challenging than the first books of Dune. How so? I'd expect that with both reality turning more and more cyberpunk, and the revived interest in the retrofuturistic '80s-early '90s form of the genre with Cyberpunk 2077 and its Netflix anime adaptation, audiences are primed for this sort of thing.

Krasnol 4y ago
What you are talking about is the visual experience. In my opinion, this will be mostly a problem BECAUSE the visuals have been there already. All of those movies following Blade Runner did their part of the Neuromancer-Cyberpunk thing. However I consider the hardest part being the emotional depth of the characters which get their unique taste through the authors way to describe them. The Burroughesque touch and the unknowns is what makes Gibsons early works truly special (it gets easier with his latests works as we can see with the current adaptation of Peripheral). The show needs a true artists touch. It doesn't have to be what Gibson did but it should be something special, not mainstream. Dune on the other hand is a straight forward dynasty drama at the beginning and only later escalates into a philosophical exercise later on before it explodes into something completely different towards the end (of the original books). The beginning has been done already in Game of Thrones for example and is pretty much doable. Neuromancer is harder but I think Apple can pull this off because I feel this brave approach from them. A feeling I had with Netflix at the beginning.
LarryMullins 4y ago
> retrofuturistic '80s-early '90s form of the genre I really hope this is the direction they don't go. Cyberpunk should be a forward-looking critique of modern society, not retro-futuristic trope-baiting.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  On one hand there's too much '80s nostalgiabait media, in large part influenced by the success of Stranger Things, perhaps, to the point that the faux-period piece style starts to look cliche. On the other, a proper Neuromancer adaptation should definitely have a lavishly ethereal synthwave soundtrack, and probably should have the future tech not include cyberpunk versions of smartphones. Also the world-building ought to have anachronistic details like the Soviet Union floating around in the background.
- Krasnol 4y ago
  What is "modern society" these days? We just came out of a presidency of a guy who's stuck in the 80s and we're moving towards a new Cold War era. Meanwhile the clothing styles look like this: https://thevou.com/fashion/current-fashion-trends/ https://thevou.com/fashion/current-fashion-trends/
RichardCA 4y ago
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel". Please explain how you make that imagery work in a way that's accessible to the old-school 80's crowd along with the younger folks who have no clue what that reference means. They absolutely have to get that right. No one wants to see Johnny Mnemonic again. In the first chapter, Case can't jack in because his brain was wrecked by the Russian mycotoxin. The lazy thing to do is explain that by having him dump expositiory dialog out of his mouth. The hard thing to do is actually show how jacking in works, but you can't just rehash the classic 1982 Tron style visuals one more time. A fresh approach is what's needed, a vision that's futuristic but also gets the retro part right. So yeah, good luck with that.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  There were some fine attempts to adapt that imagery in the previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33886291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33886291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33886295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33886295 > No one wants to see Johnny Mnemonic again. That adaptation is over 25 years old. I think we're probably a little better at adapting fiction as a society.
  - RichardCA 4y ago
    I'm not saying Johnny Mnemonic is bad, just that it dates itself to the 90's so obviously these days. Same with Virtuosity, which I think is a very underrated movie. In particular I really liked Henry Rollins' performance. It was the one thing they got just right.

larrik 4y ago

It's been some time since I read it, but I would think the most challenging aspect of Neuromance would be in the visuals. If done well, they'd convey a good chunk of the book's worldbuilding and other descriptions, leaving mostly the characters and the heist. I think the bigger challenge is that it's been partially adapted so many times already by inspiring so many shows and movies over the decades that the actual adaption would seem derivative and like treading old ground. Therefore, how do you make it it's own thing while respecting the source material.

Krasnol 4y ago
I agree totally with your argument regarding the visuals. Judging from the Foundation though, I'm pretty optimistic they can manage that. They seem to be willing to through serious cash at their shows. It doesn't always mean something as we have seen with the Super Hero Hype but they did a wonderful thing with the Foundation visually. However I'm not sure about the characters, their development and their emotional structures. You should read the book(s) again and watch out for the style in which Gibson build them. The books are a great re-read. I'll go for it myself once I'm finished with my current read.