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> it was a really great value compared to buying a powerwall, Is there an explanation for this? (I can't think of one). Why would embedding a battery in a ve

> it was a really great value compared to buying a powerwall, Is there an explanation for this? (I can't think of one). Why would embedding a battery in a vehicle be a better "value" than a battery permanently installed? And don't you need to install some protective devices (for the grid) into your electric panel if using a F150 battery to power your home wiring? Is that cost included in the calculation?

dannyw 4y ago
Regulatory credits are a huge subsidy for EV cars.
bombcar 4y ago
I think they're saying that the cost of a power wall and the F150 were basically the same, and would do the same for what they needed a power wall for and the F150 also happened to be a truck. It's like the situations where the cost of adding a shed to your property is so high (permits, etc) that it's cheaper to buy a box truck and park it in your driveway forever. It's a shed, that has wheels and can move!
- 1024core 4y ago
  > I think they're saying that the cost of a power wall and the F150 were basically the same, A pair of Power Walls costs about $25K. Surely a Lightning is more than that?
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    A powerwall is only 13.5 kW-h. Less capacity than my Chevy Volt. A F150 is minimum 98kW-h.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Powerwall gets a 30% federal tax credit (plus possible local, state, or utility rebates). Also in certain circumstances receives revenue share per kwh provided when called upon for grid support in Virtual Power Plant (VPP) arrangements. Vehicles receive a lesser EV subsidy ($7500 or roughly 15% assuming $50k purchase price).
      - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
        I mean, sure? I'll take your word for it, I'm not in the United States so this is of no relevance to me.
rhacker 4y ago
Just throw main breaker off and wait out the power outtage. When it comes back on, disconnect the truck, flip main back on, and then drive your battery to help you get a latte from starbucks.
- NegativeK 4y ago
  Energy utilities dislike this due to the potential for homeowners to electrocute their workers.
- Domenic_S 4y ago
  You must install Ford's "home integration system" that costs $4k to use the truck as home power backup. It's a transfer switch, small battery to power it, etc.
Domenic_S 4y ago
Powerwalls are $11k before installation and have 13.5 kWh capacity. Lighting truck is let's call it $90k with 131 kWh capacity. By pure capacity/$ perspective, the truck is the better deal -- plus, if you look at it that way, you get a free truck.
PopAlongKid 4y ago
I appreciate the replies. Still wondering why this could be -- what is it about the truck battery that makes it cheaper? Or are powerwalls simply over-priced?
- svnt 4y ago
  Powerwalls are both a niche and premium product, provided by basically one company, EVs are neither.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    There are probably more companies making powerwall type products than there are car companies. For example, emergency power generation companies like Generac have them, there's an ecosystem of companies competing with Jackery that are attacking it from the bottom (ecoflow, bluetti, etc), a lot of solar and solar-adjacent companies have one (enphase, myenergi, etc).
    - svnt 4y ago
      I doubt what you said is true but irrespective, number of companies != size of market, and the companies you mention serve different markets/functions, so a consumer product company also != an EV company. It is relatively easy to design/build/sell a functional powerwall or generator equivalent, but one person cannot get into the market with an EV.
      - bryanlarsen 4y ago
        Your last statement is the reason why mine is true. I'm not trying to imply that the average powerwall company is comparable to an EV company.
        svnt 4y ago
        Then isn’t it also the reason why your statement isn’t relevant to the point I was making?

dannyw 4y ago

Regulatory credits are a huge subsidy for EV cars.

bombcar 4y ago

I think they're saying that the cost of a power wall and the F150 were basically the same, and would do the same for what they needed a power wall for and the F150 also happened to be a truck. It's like the situations where the cost of adding a shed to your property is so high (permits, etc) that it's cheaper to buy a box truck and park it in your driveway forever. It's a shed, that has wheels and can move!

1024core 4y ago
> I think they're saying that the cost of a power wall and the F150 were basically the same, A pair of Power Walls costs about $25K. Surely a Lightning is more than that?
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  A powerwall is only 13.5 kW-h. Less capacity than my Chevy Volt. A F150 is minimum 98kW-h.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Powerwall gets a 30% federal tax credit (plus possible local, state, or utility rebates). Also in certain circumstances receives revenue share per kwh provided when called upon for grid support in Virtual Power Plant (VPP) arrangements. Vehicles receive a lesser EV subsidy ($7500 or roughly 15% assuming $50k purchase price).
    - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
      I mean, sure? I'll take your word for it, I'm not in the United States so this is of no relevance to me.

rhacker 4y ago

Just throw main breaker off and wait out the power outtage. When it comes back on, disconnect the truck, flip main back on, and then drive your battery to help you get a latte from starbucks.

NegativeK 4y ago
Energy utilities dislike this due to the potential for homeowners to electrocute their workers.
Domenic_S 4y ago
You must install Ford's "home integration system" that costs $4k to use the truck as home power backup. It's a transfer switch, small battery to power it, etc.

Domenic_S 4y ago

Powerwalls are $11k before installation and have 13.5 kWh capacity. Lighting truck is let's call it $90k with 131 kWh capacity. By pure capacity/$ perspective, the truck is the better deal -- plus, if you look at it that way, you get a free truck.

PopAlongKid 4y ago

I appreciate the replies. Still wondering why this could be -- what is it about the truck battery that makes it cheaper? Or are powerwalls simply over-priced?

svnt 4y ago
Powerwalls are both a niche and premium product, provided by basically one company, EVs are neither.
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  There are probably more companies making powerwall type products than there are car companies. For example, emergency power generation companies like Generac have them, there's an ecosystem of companies competing with Jackery that are attacking it from the bottom (ecoflow, bluetti, etc), a lot of solar and solar-adjacent companies have one (enphase, myenergi, etc).
  - svnt 4y ago
    I doubt what you said is true but irrespective, number of companies != size of market, and the companies you mention serve different markets/functions, so a consumer product company also != an EV company. It is relatively easy to design/build/sell a functional powerwall or generator equivalent, but one person cannot get into the market with an EV.
    - bryanlarsen 4y ago
      Your last statement is the reason why mine is true. I'm not trying to imply that the average powerwall company is comparable to an EV company.
      - svnt 4y ago
        Then isn’t it also the reason why your statement isn’t relevant to the point I was making?