3 ms·

Not so recently the similarly shocking findings about the Mediterranean cuisine rich in animal fat also contradicted the common beliefs regarding the saturated

by cromka 4y ago

Not so recently the similarly shocking findings about the Mediterranean cuisine rich in animal fat also contradicted the common beliefs regarding the saturated fats. If I may be allowed to speculate, I think it could simply have a lot to do with the very basic idea of consuming processed vs natural foods. So refined sugar = bad, refined fats = bad. Our bodies have evolved to optimize digestion and make most of those natural ingredients, but not the artificial, industrial products we had been exposed for mere 150-200 years. EDIT: for more background, what was stunning is that some cuisines in Mediterranean, like Spanish or North Italian, can be quite heavy on meat, yet that did not negatively correlate with the lifespan, compared to more lightweight variates in the region. I can’t recall the paperwork, but that was the general gist.

soco 4y ago
I guess "refined" should be probably understood as "many ingredients, seemingly important but unknown to actual medicine, filtered out"...
hombre_fatal 4y ago
Can you share more? The balance of evidence against saturated fats is quite clear, and there are usually good responses to find around single studies that purport to show countervailing evidence. The biggest example of this is that it’s hard to find a cohort that contains substantially different levels of saturated fat intake (very low vs very high). So the quintiles inside the same cohort don’t necessarily have significant outcome differences, and that’s peddled as saturated fat not being bad for you.
- hedora 4y ago
  Saturated fat is definitely not as bad as things like partially hydrogenated fats, and likely not as bad as some other highly-processed fats. Does anyone else remember "heart healthy" margarine from the 90s that was certainly worse for you cardiovascular system than lard? Anyway, studies regarding saturated fat are contradictory and inconclusive: From 2022: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/saturated-fat https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/saturated-fat From 2014: https://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/features/truth-about-saturated-fats/ https://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/features/truth-... Statements that seem to be true: - You should avoid trans fats - Replacing fats with carbs + sugar is a bad idea. - Going on a low fat diet, or a low saturated fat diet usually results in eating more carbs and sugar.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  Every guidance I've read for almost a decade has said saturated fat, including from animals, was falsely vilified and when consumed as part of a whole food is perfectly healthy up to half of your caloric intake. And that polyunsaturated fats are extraordinarily unhealthy even when not modified into transfats. The only holdouts I've seen reference American heart association which does still give the guidance you suggest. I do see triglycerides alternately blaimed on fats or carbs. My best bloodwork came when I spentonths having 1.5lbs of grassfed beef ever day with leaves and roots. My worst was when my triglycerides spiked on a carb heavy diet after soylent swapped brown rice protein for more carbs towards the end of the Kickstarter.
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  > "The balance of evidence against saturated fats is quite clear," Copying from a comment I made 3 months ago[2]; Dr Paul Mason on "Saturated Fat is not Dangerous"[1] talks about the introduction of the "lower saturated fat" guidelines in Australia and how it was not based on any evidence or medical literature review. He mentions three meta-analyses on saturated fats: "Insufficient evidence of association is present for intake of ... saturated or polyunsaturated fatty acids; total fat ... meat, eggs and milk" - Mente A, et al. A systematic review of the evidence supporting a causal link between dietary factors and coronary heart disease. Arch Intern Med. 2009 April 13. "... no significant evidence for conclusing that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD" - Siri-Tarino PW, et al. Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease. Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Mar. "There were no clear effects of dietary fat changes on total mortality or cardiovascular mortality..." - Hooper L, et al. Reduced or modified dietary fat for preventing cardiovascular disease. Cochrane Database Syst. Rev. 2011 Jul 6. And he says "the balance of evidence available at the time of developing our nutritional guidelines says that saturated fat in the diet is not associated with any deleterious health outcomes, that is, it's safe". Newer research published after 2013, same results, he cites three more reviews and meta-analyses, two from the British Medical Journal. Then he mentions the biggest most expensive study done on reducing dietary fat, $700,000,000 dollars, 50,000 people, 8 years, and the only statistically significant result from the study was that women with a history of heart disease who were randomly selected into the lower fat group, increased their risk of problems such as heart attacks by 26%. That is, saturated fat (animal fat tends to be) hasn't been proven to do anything bad, and reduced fat (vegetarianism tends to be , but not necessarily) hasn't been proven to do anything beneficial. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUY_SDhxf4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUY_SDhxf4k [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32966148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32966148
Buttons840 4y ago
> Mediterranean cuisine rich in animal fat Are you saying that a Mediterranean diet is rich in animal fat? Because that doesn't match the common definition of the word. "These proportions are sometimes represented in the Mediterranean Diet Pyramid. In a diet with roughly this composition, the fat content accounts for 25% to 35% of the total intake of calories, while the amount of saturated fat is, at most, 8% of the calorie content."[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet#Dietary_components https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet#Dietary_com...
cnntth 4y ago
I haven't kept up with the debate over the 'Mediterranean' diet, has there been a consensus of the benefits of the diet? IIRC, a big flaw in the proponents of the trend was that a lot of those benefits -- cardiovascular, weight, etc -- could also be attributed to the lower stress and more active lifestyles in those cultures compared to Americans.

by cromka 4y ago

soco 4y ago

I guess "refined" should be probably understood as "many ingredients, seemingly important but unknown to actual medicine, filtered out"...

hombre_fatal 4y ago

Can you share more? The balance of evidence against saturated fats is quite clear, and there are usually good responses to find around single studies that purport to show countervailing evidence. The biggest example of this is that it’s hard to find a cohort that contains substantially different levels of saturated fat intake (very low vs very high). So the quintiles inside the same cohort don’t necessarily have significant outcome differences, and that’s peddled as saturated fat not being bad for you.

hedora 4y ago
Saturated fat is definitely not as bad as things like partially hydrogenated fats, and likely not as bad as some other highly-processed fats. Does anyone else remember "heart healthy" margarine from the 90s that was certainly worse for you cardiovascular system than lard? Anyway, studies regarding saturated fat are contradictory and inconclusive: From 2022: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/saturated-fat https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/saturated-fat From 2014: https://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/features/truth-about-saturated-fats/ https://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/features/truth-... Statements that seem to be true: - You should avoid trans fats - Replacing fats with carbs + sugar is a bad idea. - Going on a low fat diet, or a low saturated fat diet usually results in eating more carbs and sugar.
galangalalgol 4y ago
Every guidance I've read for almost a decade has said saturated fat, including from animals, was falsely vilified and when consumed as part of a whole food is perfectly healthy up to half of your caloric intake. And that polyunsaturated fats are extraordinarily unhealthy even when not modified into transfats. The only holdouts I've seen reference American heart association which does still give the guidance you suggest. I do see triglycerides alternately blaimed on fats or carbs. My best bloodwork came when I spentonths having 1.5lbs of grassfed beef ever day with leaves and roots. My worst was when my triglycerides spiked on a carb heavy diet after soylent swapped brown rice protein for more carbs towards the end of the Kickstarter.
jodrellblank 4y ago
> "The balance of evidence against saturated fats is quite clear," Copying from a comment I made 3 months ago[2]; Dr Paul Mason on "Saturated Fat is not Dangerous"[1] talks about the introduction of the "lower saturated fat" guidelines in Australia and how it was not based on any evidence or medical literature review. He mentions three meta-analyses on saturated fats: "Insufficient evidence of association is present for intake of ... saturated or polyunsaturated fatty acids; total fat ... meat, eggs and milk" - Mente A, et al. A systematic review of the evidence supporting a causal link between dietary factors and coronary heart disease. Arch Intern Med. 2009 April 13. "... no significant evidence for conclusing that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD" - Siri-Tarino PW, et al. Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease. Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Mar. "There were no clear effects of dietary fat changes on total mortality or cardiovascular mortality..." - Hooper L, et al. Reduced or modified dietary fat for preventing cardiovascular disease. Cochrane Database Syst. Rev. 2011 Jul 6. And he says "the balance of evidence available at the time of developing our nutritional guidelines says that saturated fat in the diet is not associated with any deleterious health outcomes, that is, it's safe". Newer research published after 2013, same results, he cites three more reviews and meta-analyses, two from the British Medical Journal. Then he mentions the biggest most expensive study done on reducing dietary fat, $700,000,000 dollars, 50,000 people, 8 years, and the only statistically significant result from the study was that women with a history of heart disease who were randomly selected into the lower fat group, increased their risk of problems such as heart attacks by 26%. That is, saturated fat (animal fat tends to be) hasn't been proven to do anything bad, and reduced fat (vegetarianism tends to be , but not necessarily) hasn't been proven to do anything beneficial. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUY_SDhxf4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUY_SDhxf4k [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32966148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32966148

Buttons840 4y ago

> Mediterranean cuisine rich in animal fat Are you saying that a Mediterranean diet is rich in animal fat? Because that doesn't match the common definition of the word. "These proportions are sometimes represented in the Mediterranean Diet Pyramid. In a diet with roughly this composition, the fat content accounts for 25% to 35% of the total intake of calories, while the amount of saturated fat is, at most, 8% of the calorie content."[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet#Dietary_components https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet#Dietary_com...

cnntth 4y ago

I haven't kept up with the debate over the 'Mediterranean' diet, has there been a consensus of the benefits of the diet? IIRC, a big flaw in the proponents of the trend was that a lot of those benefits -- cardiovascular, weight, etc -- could also be attributed to the lower stress and more active lifestyles in those cultures compared to Americans.