6 ms·

Linux is like driving a car with your hands in the engine

by antihero 4y ago

nicoco 4y ago
Can I steal this? I just started a microblogging career and it's too good.
JP_Watts 4y ago
And thinking "why doesn't everybody want to do this?"
swayvil 4y ago
This contradicts my experience. I use Linux every day and I never touch the engine. I also set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies. They love it.
- seanw444 4y ago
  Some people just don't like the Linux (or Unix) way of doing things. I personally can't understand the predisposition against it, but hey, whatever works for them I guess.
  - swayvil 4y ago
    For your average user it's exactly the same desktop as windows and mac : there's menus and icons, you click on stuff, there's a browser... What's this "way" that they don't like? They don't like free, stable and fast? They don't like how it isn't going after your wallet every 5 minutes? It's gotta be propaganda at work. It's the only explanation.
    - iraqmtpizza 4y ago
      Ubuntu desktop is anything but stable. Nuke-and-pave is the only sane solution to the OS corruption issues. The GUI is more stripped down than a holocaust victim. They still haven't figured out drag and drop. And on top of that, everyone swears such-and-such distribution is actually the good one, but it never is. The desktop is in permanent demo mode. A back-burner school project that turned into a part-time hobby. Maybe you just use it for web browsing. But for everyone else, there's Windows. Which is still crap but at least you can set an environment variable without doing a research project into the differences between .bash_profile, .bashrc, .profile, and /etc/environment. None of which have a GUI. And the best part is that none of them can ever be renamed because muh scripts would break and the entire OS would come crashing down.
      - swayvil 4y ago
        Ok, ya, last time I used Ubuntu I didn't like it either. I like Debian (Ubuntu is derived from it apparently), with MATE desktop.
        iraqmtpizza 4y ago
        It is about what I would expect from an OS that considers UI to be bloatware and viral anti-business licenses to be more free than permissive ones.
        opan 4y ago
        Freedom 0 of free software, use the software for any purpose, includes commercial usage. There's nothing anti-business about it.
        iraqmtpizza 4y ago
        I agree. Using software modifications as a competitive advantage in business does not violate free software licenses. It does, however, violate non-free licenses like GPL
        inkblotuniverse 4y ago
        It's just the equivalent of a consumer protection law: you have to sell people the software, not a build artifact.
- freeplay 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, what distro do you use and what is your distro of choice for the old ladies?
  - lrvick 4y ago
    I have been setting up Ubuntu for non-technical folks for a decade. Chromebooks work great too, but I cannot justify recommending them given the proprietary Google bits included. De-Googled chromeos would probably suffice for most people though.
  - tempest_ 4y ago
    Honestly if you have older hardware, like a couple years old most of the most popular distros are pretty stable. Ubuntu on hardware a few years old will chug along without issues more often than not especially if you are just using it as a glorified thin client for Chrome which is an increasingly large base of users. There are of course some gotchas with things like integrated graphics and dedicated graphics in laptops or some device drivers for peripherals like printers (it is still linux after all, year of the linux desktop any year now aha)
  - ronjouch 4y ago
    Not OP, but chiming in nevertheless, as I do also "set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies". They all roll Debian stable with unattended_upgrades and it's an absolute joy of stability. Not that I would use Debian stable for my personal machines: I want the latest shiniest and I want to be close to upstream to report bugs when they're fresh and easy to fix by the maintainer (yes, "I use arch btw" indeed), but for "computer-illiterate" people, stability trumps everything else. The "computer illiterate" isn't amused by constant breaking behavior / visual changes. They want the thing to work reliably and unsurprisingly. Debian delivers this and never breaks. Once every major dist-upgrade I review changes with them, and they're good to go until next time.
    - freeplay 4y ago
      Nice. What is your go to desktop environment for them?
- naikrovek 4y ago
  > I also set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies. They love it. I think you're trying to say that they don't have problems with the browser, and maybe an email client. If they're computer-illiterate, they don't know enough about an operating system to have an opinion at all, other than being happy about it turning on and off when they want. Don't mistake that for loving Linux, because it is not really praise of Linux, it is praise for a computer that works well enough to run a web browser, which is an extremely low bar.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    Linux can manage a browser, and email client, and a word processor, on a early 2000s computer found for $50 at a thrift store. Meanwhile the latest supported versions of MacOS or Windows will not work on such a machine. Those ecosystems demand you continually buy new hardware. I think is -is- Linux they love here.
- themaninthedark 4y ago
  Contradicts my experience as well. I started out using DOS in the mid 90's to play games, used Windows 3.1, skipped over to 98SE then XP and 7. I have used Macs before, not enough to make an impression. I tried Linux back when I was in collage during the XP days but it always seemed to need more tweaking than my XP install and the lack of gaming kept me on Windows. Currently I am running Linux Mint. I install the OS and go. No need to tweak or mess with command line. I am not that interested in which OS I am running aside from the fact that I dislike telemetry and forced updates. I want the OS to get our of the way so that I can do whatever I am trying to do, Linux seems to be there now. It feels like Windows has regressed, with setting pages buried in 5 different places.
lrvick 4y ago
Windows is like driving a car that is actually a city bus full of hostile randos that take a lot of effort to constantly remove. MacOS is like driving a car by yelling at the driver from the kids seat in the back. In the end, learning how an engine works to maintain one myself is not so bad.

Linux is like driving a car with your hands in the engine

nicoco 4y ago

Can I steal this? I just started a microblogging career and it's too good.

JP_Watts 4y ago

And thinking "why doesn't everybody want to do this?"

swayvil 4y ago

This contradicts my experience. I use Linux every day and I never touch the engine. I also set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies. They love it.

seanw444 4y ago
Some people just don't like the Linux (or Unix) way of doing things. I personally can't understand the predisposition against it, but hey, whatever works for them I guess.
- swayvil 4y ago
  For your average user it's exactly the same desktop as windows and mac : there's menus and icons, you click on stuff, there's a browser... What's this "way" that they don't like? They don't like free, stable and fast? They don't like how it isn't going after your wallet every 5 minutes? It's gotta be propaganda at work. It's the only explanation.
  - iraqmtpizza 4y ago
    Ubuntu desktop is anything but stable. Nuke-and-pave is the only sane solution to the OS corruption issues. The GUI is more stripped down than a holocaust victim. They still haven't figured out drag and drop. And on top of that, everyone swears such-and-such distribution is actually the good one, but it never is. The desktop is in permanent demo mode. A back-burner school project that turned into a part-time hobby. Maybe you just use it for web browsing. But for everyone else, there's Windows. Which is still crap but at least you can set an environment variable without doing a research project into the differences between .bash_profile, .bashrc, .profile, and /etc/environment. None of which have a GUI. And the best part is that none of them can ever be renamed because muh scripts would break and the entire OS would come crashing down.
    - swayvil 4y ago
      Ok, ya, last time I used Ubuntu I didn't like it either. I like Debian (Ubuntu is derived from it apparently), with MATE desktop.
      - iraqmtpizza 4y ago
        It is about what I would expect from an OS that considers UI to be bloatware and viral anti-business licenses to be more free than permissive ones.
        opan 4y ago
        Freedom 0 of free software, use the software for any purpose, includes commercial usage. There's nothing anti-business about it.
        iraqmtpizza 4y ago
        I agree. Using software modifications as a competitive advantage in business does not violate free software licenses. It does, however, violate non-free licenses like GPL
        inkblotuniverse 4y ago
        It's just the equivalent of a consumer protection law: you have to sell people the software, not a build artifact.
freeplay 4y ago
Out of curiosity, what distro do you use and what is your distro of choice for the old ladies?
- lrvick 4y ago
  I have been setting up Ubuntu for non-technical folks for a decade. Chromebooks work great too, but I cannot justify recommending them given the proprietary Google bits included. De-Googled chromeos would probably suffice for most people though.
- tempest_ 4y ago
  Honestly if you have older hardware, like a couple years old most of the most popular distros are pretty stable. Ubuntu on hardware a few years old will chug along without issues more often than not especially if you are just using it as a glorified thin client for Chrome which is an increasingly large base of users. There are of course some gotchas with things like integrated graphics and dedicated graphics in laptops or some device drivers for peripherals like printers (it is still linux after all, year of the linux desktop any year now aha)
- ronjouch 4y ago
  Not OP, but chiming in nevertheless, as I do also "set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies". They all roll Debian stable with unattended_upgrades and it's an absolute joy of stability. Not that I would use Debian stable for my personal machines: I want the latest shiniest and I want to be close to upstream to report bugs when they're fresh and easy to fix by the maintainer (yes, "I use arch btw" indeed), but for "computer-illiterate" people, stability trumps everything else. The "computer illiterate" isn't amused by constant breaking behavior / visual changes. They want the thing to work reliably and unsurprisingly. Debian delivers this and never breaks. Once every major dist-upgrade I review changes with them, and they're good to go until next time.
  - freeplay 4y ago
    Nice. What is your go to desktop environment for them?
naikrovek 4y ago
> I also set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies. They love it. I think you're trying to say that they don't have problems with the browser, and maybe an email client. If they're computer-illiterate, they don't know enough about an operating system to have an opinion at all, other than being happy about it turning on and off when they want. Don't mistake that for loving Linux, because it is not really praise of Linux, it is praise for a computer that works well enough to run a web browser, which is an extremely low bar.
- lrvick 4y ago
  Linux can manage a browser, and email client, and a word processor, on a early 2000s computer found for $50 at a thrift store. Meanwhile the latest supported versions of MacOS or Windows will not work on such a machine. Those ecosystems demand you continually buy new hardware. I think is -is- Linux they love here.
themaninthedark 4y ago
Contradicts my experience as well. I started out using DOS in the mid 90's to play games, used Windows 3.1, skipped over to 98SE then XP and 7. I have used Macs before, not enough to make an impression. I tried Linux back when I was in collage during the XP days but it always seemed to need more tweaking than my XP install and the lack of gaming kept me on Windows. Currently I am running Linux Mint. I install the OS and go. No need to tweak or mess with command line. I am not that interested in which OS I am running aside from the fact that I dislike telemetry and forced updates. I want the OS to get our of the way so that I can do whatever I am trying to do, Linux seems to be there now. It feels like Windows has regressed, with setting pages buried in 5 different places.

lrvick 4y ago

Windows is like driving a car that is actually a city bus full of hostile randos that take a lot of effort to constantly remove. MacOS is like driving a car by yelling at the driver from the kids seat in the back. In the end, learning how an engine works to maintain one myself is not so bad.