5 ms·

Because I totally need native performance on an app that primarily displays text, text entry, buttons, other form controls, and maybe a random image or two.

by samtho 4y ago

satvikpendem 4y ago
I do actually, because it's a sad day when displaying a mere paucity of UI elements isn't performant.
dmitriid 4y ago
That's why to do that you need a full-blown browser that consumes enormous amounts of RAM and consumes 17% of CPU to display animated GIFs https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486364312910368769?s=20&t=jzUmquoFz8zCvyK-5MJL0w https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486364312910368769?s=20...
rodw 4y ago
Exactly. The truth is that over that last 15+ years _most_ of the apps that people use _most_ of the time are a perfect and natural fit for the web UI/UX: text, media, hyperlinks, standard form/window controls, with relatively modest standards of performance and responsiveness, etc. Assuming developers avoid resource leaks (and to be fair some notable Electron-based apps tend to be both leaky and long-running) the main drawback of Electron seems to be the non-native look-and-feel. But that _could_ be worked around (for the most part) with some effort, and I suspect most users don't actually care that much. The web browser is still probably the most-used desktop app. The web look-and-feel is familiar and intuitive to users, even if it stands out a little from the UI of native apps. Poor resource management aside, something like Electron is probably good _enough_ for most applications.
- unsafecast 4y ago
  I have never, in my life, used an electron program that isn't irritatingly slow on my main computer. Yes, it's not something you'd probably call a fast computer (4th gen i3, 4GB ram), but this same computer doesn't drop a frame in equivalent native programs. Most of the time the CPU is almost idle. I have nothing intrinsic against electron, and I'll take everything back if I see these "natural fits" actually fit.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    It sounds like your 8 year old computer can't keep with today's technology. If it's possible, might I suggest upgrading your computer? A more modern system would let you run Electron apps without being irritatingly slow. It seems silly that I had to upgrade my laptop in order to run a text editor, but it seems that's just the world we live in.
    - themoonisachees 4y ago
      On one side, I agree that expecting an 8yo machine to keep up with modern workflows is silly, and that at some point even bill gates or whoever you attribute the famous 512kb RAM quote to had to admit they were wrong
      - themoonisachees 4y ago
        Forgot to type the rest and can't edit for some reason. On the other hand, vim or Emacs with all features I personally currently use in vscode come in at a fraction of the memory usage, and it is a bit dumb to have to use that much ram for slack or discord considering how light IRC clients used to be.
        fragmede 4y ago
        Yeah it's dumb but what're you gonna do? Technology evolves and the way this industry works is you gotta keep up. Can't keep computing like we're still on mainframes writing Cobol.
        unsafecast 4y ago
        According to the industry, my laptop is slow. I, however, think that my laptop is actually very fast. It's just that everyone gets new stuff every year and the threshold for "usable computer" goes up accordingly. VS Code is unusable on my laptop. I tried it, it's way too slow to be usable. I've used vim with a few plugins that got it to the same feature set as VS Code and it's actually usable. At some point I tried Lite XL, and it was incredibly fast with the same features. More recently, I tried helix and I can say that I've never used such a fast editor with auto complete and all that. Most electron applications waste me time and energy (both human and electricity), and if software keeps going this way it'll start wasting me money. I'm not thrilled, but like you said, what are you gonna do?

Because I totally need native performance on an app that primarily displays text, text entry, buttons, other form controls, and maybe a random image or two.

by samtho 4y ago

Because I totally need native performance on an app that primarily displays text, text entry, buttons, other form controls, and maybe a random image or two.

satvikpendem 4y ago

I do actually, because it's a sad day when displaying a mere paucity of UI elements isn't performant.

dmitriid 4y ago

That's why to do that you need a full-blown browser that consumes enormous amounts of RAM and consumes 17% of CPU to display animated GIFs https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486364312910368769?s=20&t=jzUmquoFz8zCvyK-5MJL0w https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1486364312910368769?s=20...

rodw 4y ago

Exactly. The truth is that over that last 15+ years _most_ of the apps that people use _most_ of the time are a perfect and natural fit for the web UI/UX: text, media, hyperlinks, standard form/window controls, with relatively modest standards of performance and responsiveness, etc. Assuming developers avoid resource leaks (and to be fair some notable Electron-based apps tend to be both leaky and long-running) the main drawback of Electron seems to be the non-native look-and-feel. But that _could_ be worked around (for the most part) with some effort, and I suspect most users don't actually care that much. The web browser is still probably the most-used desktop app. The web look-and-feel is familiar and intuitive to users, even if it stands out a little from the UI of native apps. Poor resource management aside, something like Electron is probably good _enough_ for most applications.

unsafecast 4y ago
I have never, in my life, used an electron program that isn't irritatingly slow on my main computer. Yes, it's not something you'd probably call a fast computer (4th gen i3, 4GB ram), but this same computer doesn't drop a frame in equivalent native programs. Most of the time the CPU is almost idle. I have nothing intrinsic against electron, and I'll take everything back if I see these "natural fits" actually fit.
- fragmede 4y ago
  It sounds like your 8 year old computer can't keep with today's technology. If it's possible, might I suggest upgrading your computer? A more modern system would let you run Electron apps without being irritatingly slow. It seems silly that I had to upgrade my laptop in order to run a text editor, but it seems that's just the world we live in.
  - themoonisachees 4y ago
    On one side, I agree that expecting an 8yo machine to keep up with modern workflows is silly, and that at some point even bill gates or whoever you attribute the famous 512kb RAM quote to had to admit they were wrong
    - themoonisachees 4y ago
      Forgot to type the rest and can't edit for some reason. On the other hand, vim or Emacs with all features I personally currently use in vscode come in at a fraction of the memory usage, and it is a bit dumb to have to use that much ram for slack or discord considering how light IRC clients used to be.
      - fragmede 4y ago
        Yeah it's dumb but what're you gonna do? Technology evolves and the way this industry works is you gotta keep up. Can't keep computing like we're still on mainframes writing Cobol.
        unsafecast 4y ago
        According to the industry, my laptop is slow. I, however, think that my laptop is actually very fast. It's just that everyone gets new stuff every year and the threshold for "usable computer" goes up accordingly. VS Code is unusable on my laptop. I tried it, it's way too slow to be usable. I've used vim with a few plugins that got it to the same feature set as VS Code and it's actually usable. At some point I tried Lite XL, and it was incredibly fast with the same features. More recently, I tried helix and I can say that I've never used such a fast editor with auto complete and all that. Most electron applications waste me time and energy (both human and electricity), and if software keeps going this way it'll start wasting me money. I'm not thrilled, but like you said, what are you gonna do?