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I've always hesitated when there are large pushes coming from DevOps. What if all I wanted to do was code and not work on yaml files? I also didn't sign up to b

I've always hesitated when there are large pushes coming from DevOps. What if all I wanted to do was code and not work on yaml files? I also didn't sign up to be paged in the middle of the night. Some of the points are valid in the article but like some others the tone comes off as hostile. Truthfuy often times I don't understand how things behave in a production environment.

slyall 4y ago
Where does it say you'll get paged in the middle of the night? The questions are actually to prevent that. They are making sure somebody can possibly diagnose and fix a problem that involves[1] this service without having to call you up. [1] Note "involves" doesn't mean your service is the cause, it might be the previous or next one in the chain.
- donutshop 4y ago
  It was just an example. I've had DevOps engineers say they want us to feel the pain to make a point. The questions are great for sure.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    > I've had DevOps engineers say they want us to feel the pain to make a point. And thus you'll have an incentive to improve the quality and lower the pain. Of course that's easier said than done, and there may be other factors at play (e.g. priorities set by someone else), but at least if the misery is shared those who can do the most to fix it are fully aware of it.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    > I've had DevOps engineers say they want us to feel the pain to make a point. Yes? What, you want them to keep the pain even though they don't cause it?
    - donutshop 4y ago
      The code was not causing issues.
    - ahtihn 4y ago
      They signed up for it, I didn't.
turtlebits 4y ago
If you don’t transfer the knowledge, help setup the monitoring/alerting cases, write runbooks for others, periodically review metrics, you absolutely should be paged for a critical outage. Devs can’t just write code and throw the operational part over the wall.
- lmm 4y ago
  If you want me to be on call you'd better be paying top dollar for it. If I wanted to be responsible for a whole business I'd be working for myself rather than an employer.
- ahtihn 4y ago
  No this is all management's problem in any decent sized company. Individual developers don't have full autonomy over what they work on. If management doesn't want to spend dev time on helping operations, then tough luck. I suggest asking about these things in the hiring process.

slyall 4y ago

Where does it say you'll get paged in the middle of the night? The questions are actually to prevent that. They are making sure somebody can possibly diagnose and fix a problem that involves[1] this service without having to call you up. [1] Note "involves" doesn't mean your service is the cause, it might be the previous or next one in the chain.

donutshop 4y ago
It was just an example. I've had DevOps engineers say they want us to feel the pain to make a point. The questions are great for sure.
- sofixa 4y ago
  > I've had DevOps engineers say they want us to feel the pain to make a point. And thus you'll have an incentive to improve the quality and lower the pain. Of course that's easier said than done, and there may be other factors at play (e.g. priorities set by someone else), but at least if the misery is shared those who can do the most to fix it are fully aware of it.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > I've had DevOps engineers say they want us to feel the pain to make a point. Yes? What, you want them to keep the pain even though they don't cause it?
  - donutshop 4y ago
    The code was not causing issues.
  - ahtihn 4y ago
    They signed up for it, I didn't.

turtlebits 4y ago

If you don’t transfer the knowledge, help setup the monitoring/alerting cases, write runbooks for others, periodically review metrics, you absolutely should be paged for a critical outage. Devs can’t just write code and throw the operational part over the wall.

lmm 4y ago
If you want me to be on call you'd better be paying top dollar for it. If I wanted to be responsible for a whole business I'd be working for myself rather than an employer.
ahtihn 4y ago
No this is all management's problem in any decent sized company. Individual developers don't have full autonomy over what they work on. If management doesn't want to spend dev time on helping operations, then tough luck. I suggest asking about these things in the hiring process.