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This article seems to be to be strong justification for policies to keep people from getting overweight to begin with. I know for example, there have been batt

This article seems to be to be strong justification for policies to keep people from getting overweight to begin with. I know for example, there have been battles in school districts to get rid of flavored milk and such. I really would love to see better foods in schools. It's largely a captive audience. If we could reduce the number of people who leave high school overweight, even if by just a small number, it would probably have pretty decent long-term benefits. And likewise better college programs. For example, at my college, if there was a "good health" program I could have easily signed up for, which included aerobic/weight training and meals there's a good chance I would have done it.

bgentry 15y ago
Exactly. Once you've become obese, you've already lost (in general). Not the most encouraging thing to say to those who are already overweight, but it's an important detail nonetheless.
- radu_floricica 15y ago
  One you start a heavy diet, you've lost. There may be ways to lose weight that don't prompt the same response for your body. Maybe losing weight much slower? Or alternating fasts with periods of eating well? There is still much research to be done, and many ideas to be tested.
  - bgentry 15y ago
    Yep, good point. Considering how much nutritional theory has been turned upside down in the past 10 years it's difficult to know when the body of research will more accurately reflect the numerous subtleties in the ways our bodies work.
- dredmorbius 15y ago
  No. It's harder. There does appear to be a "fat memory" (there's also a muscle memory -- those who've done strength training in their youth will make faster, bigger gains when resuming training later on). But, absent some underlying organic cause or insult (injury, genetic propensity, illness), the same principles that work for those who have little trouble losing weight work for those who are obese. Perhaps a little more time and effort are involved. The lesson that's been instructive to me as I travel through the decades has been to watch those who were typically thin as they hit their 30s and 40s. If they aren't practicing good nutrition and activity practices, even they tend towards girth, though it's usually a potbelly rather than an all-encompassing growth. Nobody gets a free ride on this one.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
algoshift 15y ago
> strong justification for policies to keep people from getting overweight to begin with Thinking that legislation is the solution to everything is part of so many problem in the US. You can't stop fat gain with laws any more than stopping people from driving over the posted speed limits on highways (which are government legislated and policed). Education and free market effects are the only real and long-term solutions to these and other problems. Educate people and they will vote with their actions. Food quality will improve overnight if Walmart shoppers stop buying everything with corn syrup and a myriad of unrecognizable chemical cocktails added for flavor, looks, preservation, whatever. Finally, one needs to recognize that a certain percentage of the population will be fat no-matter what. I don't know what that number might be, but the key point is to face the reality that one can't fix every life. It's an individual choice. If health insurance costs were paid directly by the policy holder and the market was free and open across state lines you might just see insurance policies that say things like "if your body fat content is over 20% your deductible increases by 100%, if it's over 33% your coverage is cut in half." or some such thing. People react immediately to things that affect them directly. This sort of a free market approach is proven to motivate people to change behaviors. Your automobile insurance gets more expensive if you accumulate speeding tickets, therefore you slow down. Keep government out of it. Almost everything they touch turns into an ugly mess.
- ams6110 15y ago
  Keep government out of it. Almost everything they touch turns into an ugly mess. Amen to that. Especially considering how closely the obesity "epidemic" correlates to government recommendations on what to eat (namely the "food pyramid").
- barrkel 15y ago
  Sometimes I wish people like you would move to Somalia. If lack of government is what you really want, you can have it.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    Sometimes I wish people who support women's rights would move to Pakistan. If women's rights is what they really want, they can have it. <- This statement makes just as much sense as yours. Somalia has a government which practices quasi-Sharia [1]. Fun fact: most people who want to reduce the size of western governments don't actually favor increasing the scope of the government to pre-marital sex (a stoning offense in Somalia), wearing socks (failure to do so for women is punishable by flogging) or chewing khat (a floggable offense). [1] Mahmud, who posts here and is Somalian, claims it's not quite Sharia. Knowing very little about Islamic law, I'll take his word for it.
pan69 15y ago
My girlfriend is from Thailand and a few months ago I went to visit her parents and home town. She's from central Thailand. One thing that stuck me was the lack of "fat" people walking around. Everyone is skinny and healthy looking, especially older people. When I pointed this out to my girlfriend she said that only the youngest generation of under 10 year old are somewhat fat. This coincides with the first fast food chains and supermarkets opened in her home town about 10 years ago. It's obviously the "western diet" that's doing all this. Chuck full of fat and sugar.
- streptomycin 15y ago
  The whole "eating fat makes you fat" thing has been pretty thoroughly discredited.
  - pan69 15y ago
    The point I was trying to convey is that the "western diet" is causing obesity. Not whether it's the fat, the sugar or something else that's causing it.
    - jrockway 15y ago
      Why do you think it's the specific components of the food and not the behavior the sellers of that food encourage? Here's my theory. It takes 15 minutes for your body to realize it's full. Fast food chains encourage you to eat a lot of calories in a short period of time; it's what they advertise and it's the kind of product they deliver. This means that if you eat fast food, you are going to eat many more calories than you "want" before you realize you're satiated. If you take a McDonald's meal and turn it into a regular-sized meal with respect to calories, it's unlikely that you are going to get fat. Similarly, if you eat 2000 calories of spinach in one sitting times three meals a day every day, you're going to get fat. The problem is that the body doesn't want to eat 2000 calories of spinach in one sitting, but it does want to eat 2000 calories of cheeseburger and soda in one sitting. In other words, McDonalds makes money because they can sell people more calories than they need. This, in turn, makes their customers gain weight. (There are some details here, about how much easier it is to digest fat and carbohydrates than protein. But even if you eat a lot of protein, you'll still gain weight. Hell, that's what people who intentionally want to gain weight eat, they just eat a lot of it.)
shaggyfrog 15y ago
Jamie Oliver has been taking on the problem of bad food in schools in both the UK and the US. It's a really pernicious problem, mostly because of all of the politics and bureaucracy involved, and the heavy lobbying by the companies making the crap food. Pizza is a vegetable, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamies_School_Dinners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamies_School_Dinners
scelerat 15y ago
Not only better food, but better health education in general, including P.E., the 'lab' component to all that book learning. When you are fit and healthy, running around and playing games like soccer, volleyball, tennis, basketball is fun. They are activities which are social and which you can do throughout most of your adult life. Same goes for swimming and running. Those are harder to teach as "fun," especially to children, since they don't necessarily have a game component and are more mental in nature. Yoga and weightlifting fall into this category too. Regardless, it seems that some people obsess over the number on the scale or the appearance in the mirror, rather than focus on treating their bodies well and using them in active, physically rewarding ways. Weight and body image should follow from this approach, not drive it.

bgentry 15y ago

Exactly. Once you've become obese, you've already lost (in general). Not the most encouraging thing to say to those who are already overweight, but it's an important detail nonetheless.

radu_floricica 15y ago
One you start a heavy diet, you've lost. There may be ways to lose weight that don't prompt the same response for your body. Maybe losing weight much slower? Or alternating fasts with periods of eating well? There is still much research to be done, and many ideas to be tested.
- bgentry 15y ago
  Yep, good point. Considering how much nutritional theory has been turned upside down in the past 10 years it's difficult to know when the body of research will more accurately reflect the numerous subtleties in the ways our bodies work.
dredmorbius 15y ago
No. It's harder. There does appear to be a "fat memory" (there's also a muscle memory -- those who've done strength training in their youth will make faster, bigger gains when resuming training later on). But, absent some underlying organic cause or insult (injury, genetic propensity, illness), the same principles that work for those who have little trouble losing weight work for those who are obese. Perhaps a little more time and effort are involved. The lesson that's been instructive to me as I travel through the decades has been to watch those who were typically thin as they hit their 30s and 40s. If they aren't practicing good nutrition and activity practices, even they tend towards girth, though it's usually a potbelly rather than an all-encompassing growth. Nobody gets a free ride on this one.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

algoshift 15y ago

> strong justification for policies to keep people from getting overweight to begin with Thinking that legislation is the solution to everything is part of so many problem in the US. You can't stop fat gain with laws any more than stopping people from driving over the posted speed limits on highways (which are government legislated and policed). Education and free market effects are the only real and long-term solutions to these and other problems. Educate people and they will vote with their actions. Food quality will improve overnight if Walmart shoppers stop buying everything with corn syrup and a myriad of unrecognizable chemical cocktails added for flavor, looks, preservation, whatever. Finally, one needs to recognize that a certain percentage of the population will be fat no-matter what. I don't know what that number might be, but the key point is to face the reality that one can't fix every life. It's an individual choice. If health insurance costs were paid directly by the policy holder and the market was free and open across state lines you might just see insurance policies that say things like "if your body fat content is over 20% your deductible increases by 100%, if it's over 33% your coverage is cut in half." or some such thing. People react immediately to things that affect them directly. This sort of a free market approach is proven to motivate people to change behaviors. Your automobile insurance gets more expensive if you accumulate speeding tickets, therefore you slow down. Keep government out of it. Almost everything they touch turns into an ugly mess.

ams6110 15y ago
Keep government out of it. Almost everything they touch turns into an ugly mess. Amen to that. Especially considering how closely the obesity "epidemic" correlates to government recommendations on what to eat (namely the "food pyramid").
barrkel 15y ago
Sometimes I wish people like you would move to Somalia. If lack of government is what you really want, you can have it.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  Sometimes I wish people who support women's rights would move to Pakistan. If women's rights is what they really want, they can have it. <- This statement makes just as much sense as yours. Somalia has a government which practices quasi-Sharia [1]. Fun fact: most people who want to reduce the size of western governments don't actually favor increasing the scope of the government to pre-marital sex (a stoning offense in Somalia), wearing socks (failure to do so for women is punishable by flogging) or chewing khat (a floggable offense). [1] Mahmud, who posts here and is Somalian, claims it's not quite Sharia. Knowing very little about Islamic law, I'll take his word for it.

pan69 15y ago

My girlfriend is from Thailand and a few months ago I went to visit her parents and home town. She's from central Thailand. One thing that stuck me was the lack of "fat" people walking around. Everyone is skinny and healthy looking, especially older people. When I pointed this out to my girlfriend she said that only the youngest generation of under 10 year old are somewhat fat. This coincides with the first fast food chains and supermarkets opened in her home town about 10 years ago. It's obviously the "western diet" that's doing all this. Chuck full of fat and sugar.

streptomycin 15y ago
The whole "eating fat makes you fat" thing has been pretty thoroughly discredited.
- pan69 15y ago
  The point I was trying to convey is that the "western diet" is causing obesity. Not whether it's the fat, the sugar or something else that's causing it.
  - jrockway 15y ago
    Why do you think it's the specific components of the food and not the behavior the sellers of that food encourage? Here's my theory. It takes 15 minutes for your body to realize it's full. Fast food chains encourage you to eat a lot of calories in a short period of time; it's what they advertise and it's the kind of product they deliver. This means that if you eat fast food, you are going to eat many more calories than you "want" before you realize you're satiated. If you take a McDonald's meal and turn it into a regular-sized meal with respect to calories, it's unlikely that you are going to get fat. Similarly, if you eat 2000 calories of spinach in one sitting times three meals a day every day, you're going to get fat. The problem is that the body doesn't want to eat 2000 calories of spinach in one sitting, but it does want to eat 2000 calories of cheeseburger and soda in one sitting. In other words, McDonalds makes money because they can sell people more calories than they need. This, in turn, makes their customers gain weight. (There are some details here, about how much easier it is to digest fat and carbohydrates than protein. But even if you eat a lot of protein, you'll still gain weight. Hell, that's what people who intentionally want to gain weight eat, they just eat a lot of it.)

shaggyfrog 15y ago

Jamie Oliver has been taking on the problem of bad food in schools in both the UK and the US. It's a really pernicious problem, mostly because of all of the politics and bureaucracy involved, and the heavy lobbying by the companies making the crap food. Pizza is a vegetable, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamies_School_Dinners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamies_School_Dinners

scelerat 15y ago

Not only better food, but better health education in general, including P.E., the 'lab' component to all that book learning. When you are fit and healthy, running around and playing games like soccer, volleyball, tennis, basketball is fun. They are activities which are social and which you can do throughout most of your adult life. Same goes for swimming and running. Those are harder to teach as "fun," especially to children, since they don't necessarily have a game component and are more mental in nature. Yoga and weightlifting fall into this category too. Regardless, it seems that some people obsess over the number on the scale or the appearance in the mirror, rather than focus on treating their bodies well and using them in active, physically rewarding ways. Weight and body image should follow from this approach, not drive it.