9 ms·

Common Lisp (1986)

101 points by luu 4y ago

Guthur 4y ago
I wish we wouldn't use Google groups, I don't want login just to read a post.
- mwcremer 4y ago
  I was able to view the content without logging in ... ?
  - Guthur 4y ago
    Strange, I always get presented with a login page and no way to bypass. Maybe it's a chrome thing.
    - doodlesdev 4y ago
      Disable JavaScript.
- User23 4y ago
  Is there some other publicly available historical USENET archive that you recommend? I'd rather not use Google too.
  - mdaniel 4y ago
    https://usenetarchives.com/view.php?id=net.lang.lisp&mid=PDEwMjNAaC5jcy5jbXUuZWR1Pg https://usenetarchives.com/view.php?id=net.lang.lisp&mid=PDE... is the post in question although they must either have excluded themselves from search engines or something because the domain does show up in generic SERP but not https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ausenetarchives.com+common+lisp&t=ffab&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ausenetarchives.com+common+l... or https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ausenetarchives.com+common+lisp&hl=en https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ausenetarchives.com+co...
  - kmstout 4y ago
    If you get an account on Bottomless Abyss BBS [0], the message base has a USENET archive, but it only goes back to 2019 for comp.lang.lisp. So, useless for historical research, but fun for reading recent stuff. [0] https://bbs.bottomlessabyss.net/ https://bbs.bottomlessabyss.net/
    - akkartik 4y ago
      This seems like a fun scene. Is there like an "awesome" list of BBSs somewhere? Edit: Ooh, https://www.telnetbbsguide.com/bbs https://www.telnetbbsguide.com/bbs
- neonate 4y ago
  https://web.archive.org/web/20211017192956/https://groups.google.com/g/net.lang.lisp/c/P7W_1ISJ-sU/m/GAo6w-0B7oQJ https://web.archive.org/web/20211017192956/https://groups.go...
myth_drannon 4y ago
Aug 27, 1986 https://groups.google.com/g/net.lang.lisp/c/GSaNSpmnKBU https://groups.google.com/g/net.lang.lisp/c/GSaNSpmnKBU lisp vs C * >1) Is such flexibility and power a trait unique to lisp, or are the Symbolics > programmers simply very good (or both)? * Some things never change.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
alan-crowe 4y ago
I was curious about "3-lisp". It seems to be this http://www.cofault.com/2022/08/3-lisp-infinite-tower-of-meta-circular.html http://www.cofault.com/2022/08/3-lisp-infinite-tower-of-meta... Discussed three months ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32614795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32614795
- EdwardCoffin 4y ago
  Gregor Kiczales, one of the guys behind the MOP, gave a retrospective on the MOP [1], in which he did touch on the influence of Brian C. Smith's Ph.D. thesis and 3-Lisp. One thing he said (as I recall - I'm paraphrasing here) was that 3-Lisp got quoting right, and if he'd read Smith's thesis a tenth (!) time he might have understood that in time to make the requisite changes to the MOP. I want to read the thesis myself, but it's something like 700+ pages. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20060821003818/http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060709.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060821003818/http://bc.tech.co...
  - EdwardCoffin 4y ago
    The bit I was thinking of starts around 29:45 in the audio linked above, runs to about 33:30. Note that the audio quality is somewhat bad - the retrospective was at a meeting in a restaurant with a band playing in the background.
lisper 4y ago
The title should be: Olin Shivers on why Common Lisp doesn't suck [1986]
- soegaard 4y ago
  Don't miss the last paragraph...
  - lisper 4y ago
    ... why Common Lisp doesn't suck all that much :-)
- agumonkey 4y ago
  Shivers who was recently mentioned in the Verse news as part of the team with SPJ and others.
aidenn0 4y ago
The arguments about lexical scoping that this is refuting were some of the same for elisp not originally including lexical scoping (It was added in 2012, and enabled by default in 2020).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Common Lisp (1986)

101 points by luu 4y ago

Guthur 4y ago

I wish we wouldn't use Google groups, I don't want login just to read a post.

mwcremer 4y ago
I was able to view the content without logging in ... ?
- Guthur 4y ago
  Strange, I always get presented with a login page and no way to bypass. Maybe it's a chrome thing.
  - doodlesdev 4y ago
    Disable JavaScript.
User23 4y ago
Is there some other publicly available historical USENET archive that you recommend? I'd rather not use Google too.
- mdaniel 4y ago
  https://usenetarchives.com/view.php?id=net.lang.lisp&mid=PDEwMjNAaC5jcy5jbXUuZWR1Pg https://usenetarchives.com/view.php?id=net.lang.lisp&mid=PDE... is the post in question although they must either have excluded themselves from search engines or something because the domain does show up in generic SERP but not https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ausenetarchives.com+common+lisp&t=ffab&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ausenetarchives.com+common+l... or https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ausenetarchives.com+common+lisp&hl=en https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ausenetarchives.com+co...
- kmstout 4y ago
  If you get an account on Bottomless Abyss BBS [0], the message base has a USENET archive, but it only goes back to 2019 for comp.lang.lisp. So, useless for historical research, but fun for reading recent stuff. [0] https://bbs.bottomlessabyss.net/ https://bbs.bottomlessabyss.net/
  - akkartik 4y ago
    This seems like a fun scene. Is there like an "awesome" list of BBSs somewhere? Edit: Ooh, https://www.telnetbbsguide.com/bbs https://www.telnetbbsguide.com/bbs
neonate 4y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20211017192956/https://groups.google.com/g/net.lang.lisp/c/P7W_1ISJ-sU/m/GAo6w-0B7oQJ https://web.archive.org/web/20211017192956/https://groups.go...

myth_drannon 4y ago

Aug 27, 1986 https://groups.google.com/g/net.lang.lisp/c/GSaNSpmnKBU https://groups.google.com/g/net.lang.lisp/c/GSaNSpmnKBU lisp vs C * >1) Is such flexibility and power a trait unique to lisp, or are the Symbolics > programmers simply very good (or both)? * Some things never change.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

alan-crowe 4y ago

I was curious about "3-lisp". It seems to be this http://www.cofault.com/2022/08/3-lisp-infinite-tower-of-meta-circular.html http://www.cofault.com/2022/08/3-lisp-infinite-tower-of-meta... Discussed three months ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32614795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32614795

EdwardCoffin 4y ago
Gregor Kiczales, one of the guys behind the MOP, gave a retrospective on the MOP [1], in which he did touch on the influence of Brian C. Smith's Ph.D. thesis and 3-Lisp. One thing he said (as I recall - I'm paraphrasing here) was that 3-Lisp got quoting right, and if he'd read Smith's thesis a tenth (!) time he might have understood that in time to make the requisite changes to the MOP. I want to read the thesis myself, but it's something like 700+ pages. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20060821003818/http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060709.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060821003818/http://bc.tech.co...
- EdwardCoffin 4y ago
  The bit I was thinking of starts around 29:45 in the audio linked above, runs to about 33:30. Note that the audio quality is somewhat bad - the retrospective was at a meeting in a restaurant with a band playing in the background.

lisper 4y ago

The title should be: Olin Shivers on why Common Lisp doesn't suck [1986]

soegaard 4y ago
Don't miss the last paragraph...
- lisper 4y ago
  ... why Common Lisp doesn't suck all that much :-)
agumonkey 4y ago
Shivers who was recently mentioned in the Verse news as part of the team with SPJ and others.

aidenn0 4y ago

The arguments about lexical scoping that this is refuting were some of the same for elisp not originally including lexical scoping (It was added in 2012, and enabled by default in 2020).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]