4 ms·

> "It doesn't go as planned" bit of an editorialized clickbait title really.

smcin 4y ago
Yes it's clickbait, so I didn't upvote it; an accurate title would have been "Lessons learned upgrading Lichess from Scala 2 -> 3 and the need to tune the JVM". A drama-free title like that would have been fine, and I would have upvoted.
- jonathanyc 4y ago
  I agree. Clickbait titles are not universalizable. Kant would not be pleased.
- kzrdude 4y ago
  The actual title seems to be Lichess & Scala 3 and the subhead is "Lichess gets a big upgrade. It doesn't go as planned."
- Yiin 4y ago
  Personally I'd never click on your proposed title as I have 0 interest in Scala, but I clicked on this one and was pleasantly surprised by interesting story. Making everything sound robotic is not the way.
  - smcin 4y ago
    Do you agree that title is clickbait? You are ok with titles that misrepresent or exaggerate to boost clicks (even if most of those viewers bounce upon discovering that)?
    - hgsgm 4y ago
    - jzoch 4y ago
      But the upgrade....didnt go as planned? In what way was it a misrepresentation? It was certainly generic but definitely not exaggerated. Felt fine for an editorialized title
      - smcin 4y ago
        sdwr's comment had already explained why this is clickbait: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34008009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34008009
    - switchbak 4y ago
      They planned to have a much bigger hassle with the upgrade. That "plan" didn't materialize, as the upgrade was a lot smoother than they expected. Sure the title is jazzed up a lot, but calling it clickbait seems to be a bit harsh.
  - _Algernon_ 4y ago
    You just described the exact reason why this is clickbait. You wouldn't have clicked but due to editorialized title, you did click.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  Or maybe the actual title “ Lichess & Scala 3” It is not the articles fault the first sentence was used as the title
zython 4y ago
INNOCENT dev migrates to Scala 3, what happened next will SHOCK you.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Spend a week of running the JVM in production without tuning it challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
  - no_wizard 4y ago
    This should be a Leetcode hard test. Deploy a JVM for a large production upgrade without issues
    - xarope 4y ago
      Trick question, it's not possible
- asddubs 4y ago
  that's still conveying too much information INNOCENT dev did THIS, and what happened next will SHOCK you
  - xarope 4y ago
    INNOCENT dev did THIS, and what happened next was <truncated text, click to follow article, followed by being bombarded by 20 ads which magically bypass ublock origin>
- rawoke083600 4y ago
  WHy iS NoOne Talking AbOut ThiS ? No7 SurpriZed Me ! :D
hgsgm 4y ago
gigantaure 4y ago
Is it clickbait when the top contributor/creator posts on his website? The same website that makes a strong promotion against ad tracking: https://lichess.org/ads https://lichess.org/ads I clearly don't have the same definition of clickbait.
- _2d30 4y ago
  > The same website that makes a strong promotion against ad tracking: https://lichess.org/ads https://lichess.org/ads What does this have to do with clickbait?
  - gigantaure 4y ago
    that's a great question. I had reviewed the Wikipedia page prior to my comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickbait https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickbait it seems there is no universal definition of clickbait. So I based my comment on this: 1. the article was posted on Thibault's own website that doesn't generate revenue per click. Isn't clickbait associated with the possibility of additional ad revenue? 2. Thibault recently called for help on the issue. This post recaps what he went through. He clearly expressed that the code upgrade process didn't go as planned for him. the post and sub-title feels genuine. 3. Clickbait (to me at least) indicates that there's either intent on generating revenue or self-promotion. I fail to see those conditions here So that's my logic. So why would this be considered clickbait?
    - sdwr 4y ago
      Clickbait is a sensationalized or misleading title meant to draw extra attention (in the form of clicks). Both "big upgrade" and "didn't go as planned" are technically true, but overpromise. A big upgrade could be new features, improved UI, something that affects the user experience. "Updated Lichess language version, had to tweak cache settings" is a title that isn't trying to sell itself.
      - hgsgm 4y ago
        It's not anyone else's blame if you don't share their life passions. Thibault isn't posting low-effort spam for profit, he's pouring years of his life energy into a beloved project that is a gift to the world.
maxbond 4y ago
I don't think there's anything wrong with an evocative title. In my mind, clickbait is when you never actually get what's promised, or it's vastly oversold. This title tells me, "we had a deploy that caused problems for a surprising reason," and I feel like needing to retune the JVM delivers on that. It's a weird, surprising issue. I'm sure there are old-hands who have deployed JVM apps at scale might be unsurprised and unimpressed, but I was surprised. I think showmanship is okay if it's tasteful. The problem with clickbait is that it's manipulative and tacky and dishonest. After you read the article you feel like you've been had.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  > I feel like needing to retune the JVM delivers on that. It's a weird, surprising issue. Having spent several years in the running-JVMs-in-production trenches I would claim the opposite.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    I did address this objection upfront: > I'm sure there are old-hands who have deployed JVM apps at scale might be unsurprised and unimpressed, but I was surprised. I've never done anything nontrivial with the JVM, so I'm totally willing to believe I was surprised because of my JVM ignorance, but I've never had to fiddle with my language VMs. Regardless, I argue there's room for tasteful showmanship without it being clickbait.
- _Algernon_ 4y ago
  >In my mind, clickbait is when you never actually get what's promised, or it's vastly oversold. Clickbait is trying to bait you into clicking. This definitely falls under that. Is it the worst case of clickbait I've seen? No. But it is definitely clickbait.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - tech_ken 4y ago
Scarblac 4y ago
The actual title on the article is "Lichess & Scala 3". Whoever posted it to HN decided to go with the title of the first section of the article.
- _Algernon_ 4y ago
  That title is just as poor, in the opposite way. It says nothing about what the article is about. What's wrong with a title that is a one sentence summary of the article?
  - nicky0 4y ago
    How about the title and subtitle be taken together, as intended.
  - Scarblac 4y ago
    I guess submitter thought it wasn't a good title for HN purposes too, and so he went with the subtitle rather than inventing his own. So nobody intended clickbait.
sundarurfriend 4y ago
It sounds like clickbait when read in the Hacker News context. But if I'd come across this in the Lichess blog directly, I would've immediately known it was kinda tongue-in-cheek or at least nothing serious. Context matters.
innomatics 4y ago
Yeah despite being an interesting post about Scala, I came for the harrowing tale of a big deployment gone wrong. Downtime, angry customers, seat of the pants debugging and straight to prod gambles to save a sinking ship. Instead, a smug tale of a huge upgrade that went unexpectedly smoothly - with a performance problem swiftly solved. Still a good story, and kudos to the team. Just not the horror show I came for.

Yes it's clickbait, so I didn't upvote it; an accurate title would have been "Lessons learned upgrading Lichess from Scala 2 -> 3 and the need to tune the JVM". A drama-free title like that would have been fine, and I would have upvoted.

jonathanyc 4y ago
I agree. Clickbait titles are not universalizable. Kant would not be pleased.
kzrdude 4y ago
The actual title seems to be Lichess & Scala 3 and the subhead is "Lichess gets a big upgrade. It doesn't go as planned."
Yiin 4y ago
Personally I'd never click on your proposed title as I have 0 interest in Scala, but I clicked on this one and was pleasantly surprised by interesting story. Making everything sound robotic is not the way.
- smcin 4y ago
  Do you agree that title is clickbait? You are ok with titles that misrepresent or exaggerate to boost clicks (even if most of those viewers bounce upon discovering that)?
  - hgsgm 4y ago
  - jzoch 4y ago
    But the upgrade....didnt go as planned? In what way was it a misrepresentation? It was certainly generic but definitely not exaggerated. Felt fine for an editorialized title
    - smcin 4y ago
      sdwr's comment had already explained why this is clickbait: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34008009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34008009
  - switchbak 4y ago
    They planned to have a much bigger hassle with the upgrade. That "plan" didn't materialize, as the upgrade was a lot smoother than they expected. Sure the title is jazzed up a lot, but calling it clickbait seems to be a bit harsh.
- _Algernon_ 4y ago
  You just described the exact reason why this is clickbait. You wouldn't have clicked but due to editorialized title, you did click.
quickthrower2 4y ago
Or maybe the actual title “ Lichess & Scala 3” It is not the articles fault the first sentence was used as the title

zython 4y ago

INNOCENT dev migrates to Scala 3, what happened next will SHOCK you.

lamontcg 4y ago
Spend a week of running the JVM in production without tuning it challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
- no_wizard 4y ago
  This should be a Leetcode hard test. Deploy a JVM for a large production upgrade without issues
  - xarope 4y ago
    Trick question, it's not possible
asddubs 4y ago
that's still conveying too much information INNOCENT dev did THIS, and what happened next will SHOCK you
- xarope 4y ago
  INNOCENT dev did THIS, and what happened next was <truncated text, click to follow article, followed by being bombarded by 20 ads which magically bypass ublock origin>
rawoke083600 4y ago
WHy iS NoOne Talking AbOut ThiS ? No7 SurpriZed Me ! :D

hgsgm 4y ago

gigantaure 4y ago

Is it clickbait when the top contributor/creator posts on his website? The same website that makes a strong promotion against ad tracking: https://lichess.org/ads https://lichess.org/ads I clearly don't have the same definition of clickbait.

_2d30 4y ago
> The same website that makes a strong promotion against ad tracking: https://lichess.org/ads https://lichess.org/ads What does this have to do with clickbait?
- gigantaure 4y ago
  that's a great question. I had reviewed the Wikipedia page prior to my comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickbait https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickbait it seems there is no universal definition of clickbait. So I based my comment on this: 1. the article was posted on Thibault's own website that doesn't generate revenue per click. Isn't clickbait associated with the possibility of additional ad revenue? 2. Thibault recently called for help on the issue. This post recaps what he went through. He clearly expressed that the code upgrade process didn't go as planned for him. the post and sub-title feels genuine. 3. Clickbait (to me at least) indicates that there's either intent on generating revenue or self-promotion. I fail to see those conditions here So that's my logic. So why would this be considered clickbait?
  - sdwr 4y ago
    Clickbait is a sensationalized or misleading title meant to draw extra attention (in the form of clicks). Both "big upgrade" and "didn't go as planned" are technically true, but overpromise. A big upgrade could be new features, improved UI, something that affects the user experience. "Updated Lichess language version, had to tweak cache settings" is a title that isn't trying to sell itself.
    - hgsgm 4y ago
      It's not anyone else's blame if you don't share their life passions. Thibault isn't posting low-effort spam for profit, he's pouring years of his life energy into a beloved project that is a gift to the world.

maxbond 4y ago

I don't think there's anything wrong with an evocative title. In my mind, clickbait is when you never actually get what's promised, or it's vastly oversold. This title tells me, "we had a deploy that caused problems for a surprising reason," and I feel like needing to retune the JVM delivers on that. It's a weird, surprising issue. I'm sure there are old-hands who have deployed JVM apps at scale might be unsurprised and unimpressed, but I was surprised. I think showmanship is okay if it's tasteful. The problem with clickbait is that it's manipulative and tacky and dishonest. After you read the article you feel like you've been had.

lamontcg 4y ago
> I feel like needing to retune the JVM delivers on that. It's a weird, surprising issue. Having spent several years in the running-JVMs-in-production trenches I would claim the opposite.
- maxbond 4y ago
  I did address this objection upfront: > I'm sure there are old-hands who have deployed JVM apps at scale might be unsurprised and unimpressed, but I was surprised. I've never done anything nontrivial with the JVM, so I'm totally willing to believe I was surprised because of my JVM ignorance, but I've never had to fiddle with my language VMs. Regardless, I argue there's room for tasteful showmanship without it being clickbait.
_Algernon_ 4y ago
>In my mind, clickbait is when you never actually get what's promised, or it's vastly oversold. Clickbait is trying to bait you into clicking. This definitely falls under that. Is it the worst case of clickbait I've seen? No. But it is definitely clickbait.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tech_ken 4y ago

Scarblac 4y ago

The actual title on the article is "Lichess & Scala 3". Whoever posted it to HN decided to go with the title of the first section of the article.

_Algernon_ 4y ago
That title is just as poor, in the opposite way. It says nothing about what the article is about. What's wrong with a title that is a one sentence summary of the article?
- nicky0 4y ago
  How about the title and subtitle be taken together, as intended.
- Scarblac 4y ago
  I guess submitter thought it wasn't a good title for HN purposes too, and so he went with the subtitle rather than inventing his own. So nobody intended clickbait.

sundarurfriend 4y ago

It sounds like clickbait when read in the Hacker News context. But if I'd come across this in the Lichess blog directly, I would've immediately known it was kinda tongue-in-cheek or at least nothing serious. Context matters.

innomatics 4y ago

Yeah despite being an interesting post about Scala, I came for the harrowing tale of a big deployment gone wrong. Downtime, angry customers, seat of the pants debugging and straight to prod gambles to save a sinking ship. Instead, a smug tale of a huge upgrade that went unexpectedly smoothly - with a performance problem swiftly solved. Still a good story, and kudos to the team. Just not the horror show I came for.