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So we are talking about redefining programming to be managing, redefining, bug fixing, troubleshooting the output of ML potentially increasing output but making

So we are talking about redefining programming to be managing, redefining, bug fixing, troubleshooting the output of ML potentially increasing output but making the job more complicated not allowing the non coding pm to replace more skilled workers.

visarga 4y ago
Yes, but in a few years we have to reevaluate this, probably language models are going to be good enough to allow a PM to replace devs. AIs will code at superhuman level because it is possible to test code, it will learn like AlphaGo learned from self-play.
- svachalek 4y ago
  Maybe. The way this usually goes is tools get better, everyone says we don't need devs anymore, devs use the tools way better than PMs, standards rise, PM code is junk again.
- throw827474737 4y ago
  I claim pipe dream, otherwise AIs can program themselves and we will have the singularity. Will it be good or evil?
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  If you were picking someone to ride herd on an AI generating code are you sure - You will never need to understand a single bit of what the AI has generated for legal, moral, or strategic reasons? - You will never need to manually rework a single thing or fix anything ever. Logically neither statement is true furthermore who do you imagine is writing the tests that ensure correctness? Logically the person you would want to do this task isn't a yokel who understands interpersonal relationships its someone who understands what is being generated so your company wont murder people or get sued out of existence. Of course you will probably want more than one person doing this task and there ought to be some interface between him and his fellows and between the lot of them and management to ensure good communication and company standards... Maybe a PM? I find it endlessly fascinating that those who can't do dream about the obsolescence of the useful class deeming the irreplaceable human part of the endeavor is the petty manipulation of each other and ego massaging we all do by necessity to keep human endeavors tied together with bailing wire and barely plodding on. It doesn't speak well for our species. Beyond narrow parameters self improving arbitrary representation and manipulation of symbolic data is basically AI complete. The toy you would hope to enable you to ask a computer instead of a person for a particular improvement to your website would upon completion represent a short step from the obsolescence not of coders but of humans wrought in vain hope that we can actually control tools smarter than us. It's probably neither "a few years" away nor that fantastic of an idea but do carry on.

visarga 4y ago

Yes, but in a few years we have to reevaluate this, probably language models are going to be good enough to allow a PM to replace devs. AIs will code at superhuman level because it is possible to test code, it will learn like AlphaGo learned from self-play.

svachalek 4y ago
Maybe. The way this usually goes is tools get better, everyone says we don't need devs anymore, devs use the tools way better than PMs, standards rise, PM code is junk again.
throw827474737 4y ago
I claim pipe dream, otherwise AIs can program themselves and we will have the singularity. Will it be good or evil?
michaelmrose 4y ago
If you were picking someone to ride herd on an AI generating code are you sure - You will never need to understand a single bit of what the AI has generated for legal, moral, or strategic reasons? - You will never need to manually rework a single thing or fix anything ever. Logically neither statement is true furthermore who do you imagine is writing the tests that ensure correctness? Logically the person you would want to do this task isn't a yokel who understands interpersonal relationships its someone who understands what is being generated so your company wont murder people or get sued out of existence. Of course you will probably want more than one person doing this task and there ought to be some interface between him and his fellows and between the lot of them and management to ensure good communication and company standards... Maybe a PM? I find it endlessly fascinating that those who can't do dream about the obsolescence of the useful class deeming the irreplaceable human part of the endeavor is the petty manipulation of each other and ego massaging we all do by necessity to keep human endeavors tied together with bailing wire and barely plodding on. It doesn't speak well for our species. Beyond narrow parameters self improving arbitrary representation and manipulation of symbolic data is basically AI complete. The toy you would hope to enable you to ask a computer instead of a person for a particular improvement to your website would upon completion represent a short step from the obsolescence not of coders but of humans wrought in vain hope that we can actually control tools smarter than us. It's probably neither "a few years" away nor that fantastic of an idea but do carry on.