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Yes. Complication from jab administration is something that has been widely discussed (not widely reported though). The clinical trials were supposed to show th

Yes. Complication from jab administration is something that has been widely discussed (not widely reported though). The clinical trials were supposed to show that the jab (and therefore the mRNA, and the resultant spike protein generated, which is known to be toxic) stayed in the muscle local to the injection site. What is widely speculated is that on some not-insubstantial portion of injections, the jab makes it into the bloodstream. This would explain why we see spike protein collecting in the heart, reproductive organs and other parts of the body. And because of how the jab works - inducing spike protein genesis as well as an immune response - when the immune system finds spike protein on the cells that are creating it (supposed to be just your arm muscle but ends up being your heart and other things), it starts attacking those cells. Which leads to inflammation, blood clots, etc.

dontwearitout 4y ago
A nurse friend of mine raised this as a concern. The protocol for intramuscular injections used to be (and in some places still is) to draw the plunger back a bit first to verify that you're in muscle, and haven't hit a small vein. If you pull blood, you find new spot. In practice this doesn't happen for covid vaccines, and her personal hypothesis was that many of the adverse reactions (myocarditis, or just being hit hard) were due to the vaccine partially being administered into a vein.
thehappypm 4y ago
I wonder if a similar mechanism is responsible for the blood clotting risk with the J&J shot, which uses a viral delivery mechanism.
CadmiumYellow 4y ago
This is extremely fascinating to me as a layperson. Can you explain how this effect would be unique to mRNA? Like, could you get a flu shot and end up with some of the inactivated flu virus spreading around the body and sticking to other organs? Or is the spike protein collecting in other organs solely because the mRNA is telling those cells to produce it, whereas with a typical vaccine the dead virus could get into the bloodstream but it would simply float around the body without piling up anywhere til it's taken out by the immune system?
- hammock 4y ago
  The difference between the covid jab and the flu vax has to do with the combination of a) mRNA turns your body into a "factory" to pump out a somewhat-unknowable and individually variable quantity of spike protein, and b) the spike protein "sticks to organs" as you put it (or more generally, is harmful), which is not something that e.g. a deactivated virion does
  - CadmiumYellow 4y ago
    Thank you, I didn't really understand the distinction there re: the spike protein!
ukFxqnLa2sBSBf6 4y ago
I wonder if having larger arm muscles reduces this risk. Great workout motivation if so.
- abracadaniel 4y ago
  Or, maybe that leads to more vasculature and more chance of hitting a vein? It's interesting that it was more prevalent in young men than other demographics.
Izkata 4y ago
> The clinical trials were supposed to show that the jab (and therefore the mRNA, and the resultant spike protein generated, which is known to be toxic) stayed in the muscle local to the injection site. They didn't. The data Pfizer released to the Japanese government showed that the lipid nanoparticle could be found all over the bodies of the test rats in hours. It's a small proportion of the overall shot, but the data only goes to 48 hours and in most areas (particularly the ovaries, which is what people kept calling out from this) it was still increasing.

dontwearitout 4y ago

A nurse friend of mine raised this as a concern. The protocol for intramuscular injections used to be (and in some places still is) to draw the plunger back a bit first to verify that you're in muscle, and haven't hit a small vein. If you pull blood, you find new spot. In practice this doesn't happen for covid vaccines, and her personal hypothesis was that many of the adverse reactions (myocarditis, or just being hit hard) were due to the vaccine partially being administered into a vein.

thehappypm 4y ago

I wonder if a similar mechanism is responsible for the blood clotting risk with the J&J shot, which uses a viral delivery mechanism.

CadmiumYellow 4y ago

This is extremely fascinating to me as a layperson. Can you explain how this effect would be unique to mRNA? Like, could you get a flu shot and end up with some of the inactivated flu virus spreading around the body and sticking to other organs? Or is the spike protein collecting in other organs solely because the mRNA is telling those cells to produce it, whereas with a typical vaccine the dead virus could get into the bloodstream but it would simply float around the body without piling up anywhere til it's taken out by the immune system?

hammock 4y ago
The difference between the covid jab and the flu vax has to do with the combination of a) mRNA turns your body into a "factory" to pump out a somewhat-unknowable and individually variable quantity of spike protein, and b) the spike protein "sticks to organs" as you put it (or more generally, is harmful), which is not something that e.g. a deactivated virion does
- CadmiumYellow 4y ago
  Thank you, I didn't really understand the distinction there re: the spike protein!

ukFxqnLa2sBSBf6 4y ago

I wonder if having larger arm muscles reduces this risk. Great workout motivation if so.

abracadaniel 4y ago
Or, maybe that leads to more vasculature and more chance of hitting a vein? It's interesting that it was more prevalent in young men than other demographics.

Izkata 4y ago

> The clinical trials were supposed to show that the jab (and therefore the mRNA, and the resultant spike protein generated, which is known to be toxic) stayed in the muscle local to the injection site. They didn't. The data Pfizer released to the Japanese government showed that the lipid nanoparticle could be found all over the bodies of the test rats in hours. It's a small proportion of the overall shot, but the data only goes to 48 hours and in most areas (particularly the ovaries, which is what people kept calling out from this) it was still increasing.